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Author Topic:   A question about evolution
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 15 of 70 (798314)
02-01-2017 6:02 PM


For answers to questions about human races, see Stanley Garn's book, Human Races.
The original edition can be found on the web for free:
Human races : Garn, Stanley M : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 20 of 70 (798358)
02-01-2017 11:38 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by CRR
02-01-2017 11:27 PM


Black skin might absorb more heat but it also radiates more heat and the higher levels of melanin help to reduce effects of higher ultraviolet radiation so black is not necessarily a disadvantage compared to white skin.
Each was well-adapted to the climate in which it was found.
Read the Stanley Garn book I mentioned a few posts upthread.
Skin color is an adaptation primarily to solar intensity--dark skin protects from UV, while light skin allows production of Vitamin D.
Eskimos have relatively dark skin because no matter how much nude sun bathing they did they couldn't get Vitamin D from the sun--they had to get Vitamin D from their environment, so skin color didn't matter.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by CRR, posted 02-01-2017 11:27 PM CRR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by caffeine, posted 02-02-2017 2:43 PM Coyote has replied
 Message 32 by CRR, posted 02-03-2017 4:44 AM Coyote has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 28 of 70 (798474)
02-02-2017 7:26 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by caffeine
02-02-2017 2:43 PM


Caffeine--You said essentially the same thing I did.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by caffeine, posted 02-02-2017 2:43 PM caffeine has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by dwise1, posted 02-03-2017 12:23 AM Coyote has not replied
 Message 35 by caffeine, posted 02-03-2017 11:44 AM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 36 of 70 (798554)
02-03-2017 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by caffeine
02-03-2017 11:44 AM


You suggested that there was no selection for lighter skin because insolation was so low that this would not have helped with vitamin D production anyway.
I suggested that there was no selection for lighter skin since vitamin D requirements were already met by diet.
We're both saying the same things.
Lighter skin can provide Vitamin D only to a certain latitude, and beyond that point it must come from diet. For groups like the Eskimo there would be no selection pressure for lighter skin.
My quip about nude sunbathing not being popular among the Eskimos was just that--a quip.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by caffeine, posted 02-03-2017 11:44 AM caffeine has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 41 of 70 (799133)
02-07-2017 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Diomedes
02-07-2017 3:10 PM


Also a great example of why racism is so friggen stupid.
Exactly. But it gets worse, as there are quite a few of what are referred to as "classical" racial traits that have similar clines from one extreme to the other, and there is often minimal correlation between those traits and skin color. Geography is a more important determinant than descent in the long run.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Diomedes, posted 02-07-2017 3:10 PM Diomedes has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 54 of 70 (799331)
02-09-2017 10:26 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by NoNukes
02-09-2017 2:22 AM


Your theory is nonsense.
Exactly.
There is another source of variation--skin thickness.
If I remember a graduate course in Human Races from a while back, groups like the Bushmen of Southern Africa have thicker skins, which contributes in part to perceived skin color.
And Adam & Eve are religious myths, and can't be used to address scientific problems. Might as well use the Easter Bunny as a data point.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by NoNukes, posted 02-09-2017 2:22 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by AZPaul3, posted 02-09-2017 6:53 PM Coyote has seen this message but not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 68 of 70 (801281)
03-04-2017 6:41 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by CRR
03-04-2017 6:31 PM


Re: Step 2
...dysfunctional variants
Since when is lighter skin color in a region with lower UV intensity dysfunctional?
I would suggest it was entirely functional, and both a beneficial and a necessary mutation.
The body does not work well without Vitamin D and other photochemicals.
African Americans are at greater risk of vitamin D deficiency, because if you have dark skin, you may need as much as 10 times more sun exposure to produce the same amount of vitamin D as a person with pale skin!
http://articles.mercola.com/...eficiency-signs-symptoms.aspx
So, as people migrated away from the equator, different mutations that allowed for increased Vitamin D and other photochemical production were beneficial!

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by CRR, posted 03-04-2017 6:31 PM CRR has not replied

  
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