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Author Topic:   Gay Marriage as an attack on Christianity
LamarkNewAge
Member (Idle past 737 days)
Posts: 2236
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 286 of 1484 (802535)
03-17-2017 12:41 PM


The Gospel and Acts don't mention homosexual issues
Roman and Greek society allowed same sex marriage. Jesus opposed fornication and divorce. Acts 15 had the old law partly obtained for all gentiles and it covered food prohibition and fornication. Homosexual acts were irrelevant it seems. This is so selective at best to even want to make homosexual marriage some sort of Christian issue AND it is outright discrimination to behave like the Christian faith or Law is at stake if homosexuals are allowed to have rights tthat all others have.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 287 of 1484 (802536)
03-17-2017 12:51 PM


Loving the sinner means rejecting the sin
I know the idea is that it's unloving to gays to deny them the "right" to be married, but love doesn't approve of anything that goes against God's laws. What everyone needs above all is salvation. We're all immortal, we're all going to "live" forever, if living in Hell can be called life. It's going to last for eternity. We're all going to continue to be conscious for eternity, in one condition or another. Sin, meaning disobeying God, is how we earn Hell. We're all sinners so all of us are destined to Hell on our own records. The only way anyone can be saved from Hell is by recognizing that God sent us a Savior who took our sins on Himself and died in our place, accepting His gift of salvation and giving ourselves completely to Him.
Homosexuality is a particularly difficult state of mind to give up for salvation, it isn't like individual sins you can work to give up, it's a whole way of life that involves just about everything the person does. Giving it up has to be excruciatingly difficult. Everyone who is saved out of a sinful life who has no Christian frame of reference suffers in a similar way, loses friends, loses family in many cases, it always costs. I lost all that just as everyone does who converts into nothingness as it were. But it must be all the harder for homosexuals who have to give up their main identity along with friends and lovers. That needs to be acknowledged.
This thread is about the cultural context, the law, it's not about evangelizing anybody, but it seemed necessary to say something along those lines somewhere in the thread so I'm saying it now. Love doesn't support anything God calls sin, and eternal life is far far more important to everybody and anybody than the most pleasant arrangements that can be set up in this life. It's worth it to give up absolutely everything for Christ, and everybody who has converted knows that. Everything. Every kind of happiness you can find on this earth, all worth giving up.

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 288 of 1484 (802537)
03-17-2017 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 286 by LamarkNewAge
03-17-2017 12:41 PM


Re: The Gospel and Acts don't mention homosexual issues
You left out that God in the OT calls homosexual acts sin. And the NT says practicing homosexuals cannot have eternal life. Romans 1 very clearly condemns homosexuality and I'll have to look up the other reference, where the term used is "effeminate."
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by LamarkNewAge, posted 03-17-2017 12:41 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 289 of 1484 (802538)
03-17-2017 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 284 by Faith
03-17-2017 12:24 PM


again, no Faith. You can believe what ever you want. No law sanctions beliefs.
Faith writes:
You mean besides the fact that we are citizens of that secular society and the law sets us up to be criminals because of what we believe?
No Faith. No one cares what you believe. It is behavior that breaks the law not beliefs.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

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 Message 284 by Faith, posted 03-17-2017 12:24 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 290 of 1484 (802539)
03-17-2017 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 288 by Faith
03-17-2017 12:53 PM


Those who will not inherit the kingdom of God unless they repent
1Corinthians 6:9-11 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by Faith, posted 03-17-2017 12:53 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 291 by Theodoric, posted 03-17-2017 1:10 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 292 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-17-2017 1:14 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 293 by ringo, posted 03-17-2017 1:15 PM Faith has replied
 Message 296 by LamarkNewAge, posted 03-17-2017 2:09 PM Faith has replied
 Message 307 by 14174dm, posted 03-17-2017 7:12 PM Faith has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 291 of 1484 (802540)
03-17-2017 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 290 by Faith
03-17-2017 1:05 PM


Re: Those who will not inherit the kingdom of God unless they repent
Wouldn't want it even if it were offered to me.
You do realize that is just a quote from a book?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 290 by Faith, posted 03-17-2017 1:05 PM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 292 of 1484 (802541)
03-17-2017 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 290 by Faith
03-17-2017 1:05 PM


Re: Those who will not inherit the kingdom of God unless they repent
So, exhibit A would be the adulterer Trump who has publicly stated that he has never asked God for forgiveness.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3l0e6nS9oI

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 Message 290 by Faith, posted 03-17-2017 1:05 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 293 of 1484 (802542)
03-17-2017 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 290 by Faith
03-17-2017 1:05 PM


Re: Those who will not inherit the kingdom of God unless they repent
Faith writes:
"... nor revilers...."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 290 by Faith, posted 03-17-2017 1:05 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 295 by Faith, posted 03-17-2017 1:48 PM ringo has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 294 of 1484 (802545)
03-17-2017 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 255 by Dr Adequate
03-17-2017 9:53 AM


Re: witchery
Oh but I do. The thing is I don't know God's will in this case.
But whatever it is, it'll be awesome, yes? 'Cos of him being God? If he smites Trump with the seven plagues of Egypt, that'll be good, and if he doesn't, that'll also be good, right? Surely the great thing about being a Calvinist is that you get to be totally stoked over anything that actually happens, since whatever does happen is God's wondrous plan which it would be blasphemous to disapprove of in any way.
All true ideally, but human beings aren't perfect so we don't usually get to appreciate such exalted truths. I remember being awed by the incident in "God's Hiding Place," where the women in the concentration camp barracks thanked God for the fleas, because the Bible says we should.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 295 of 1484 (802546)
03-17-2017 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 293 by ringo
03-17-2017 1:15 PM


Re: Those who will not inherit the kingdom of God unless they repent
Taken it to heart many times, repent, God forgives, I fall again.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 293 by ringo, posted 03-17-2017 1:15 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
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LamarkNewAge
Member (Idle past 737 days)
Posts: 2236
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 296 of 1484 (802550)
03-17-2017 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 290 by Faith
03-17-2017 1:05 PM


ROMANS 6 "LAW" verses not helping Faith's argument so she left out of quote
Read and quote the next 2 verses in Romans. I think it was verses 12 to 13 where Paul said all things are lawful or was that verse 7? The plain reading of your text might not back you up even if you take homosexual acts to be a sin in the said text. Quote the whole context Faith.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 290 by Faith, posted 03-17-2017 1:05 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 302 by Faith, posted 03-17-2017 4:25 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 297 of 1484 (802551)
03-17-2017 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 278 by Faith
03-17-2017 12:05 PM


Re: Biblical sources of the marriage ordinance
None of this is about personal sins, it's about the ordinance of marriage given by God. It isn't about people being gay, it's about marriage and God's definition of it.
Out of curiosity, could you point me to where God clearly defines what constitutes marriage in His opinion? That would be helpful, thanks.
Genesis 2:24: Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
And Jesus quotes it where He's preaching against divorce:
Matthew 19:5-6 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
Also in Mark 10:8
The Bible doesn't limit that to marriage, it works on whores too:
quote:
1 Cor 16
Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, The two will become one flesh.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by Faith, posted 03-17-2017 12:05 PM Faith has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 298 of 1484 (802555)
03-17-2017 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 297 by New Cat's Eye
03-17-2017 2:33 PM


Re: Biblical sources of the marriage ordinance
Which is a warning not to unite with prostitutes, because sexual union creates one flesh, which is marriage.

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Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 299 of 1484 (802557)
03-17-2017 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 297 by New Cat's Eye
03-17-2017 2:33 PM


Re: Biblical sources of the marriage ordinance
Just a nitpick.
1 Corinthians 6:16 actually

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 297 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-17-2017 2:33 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 300 of 1484 (802558)
03-17-2017 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 281 by ringo
03-17-2017 12:14 PM


The language in the Bible isn't exclusive. It says what a man shall do, not what he shall not do.
It also does not say what a woman shall do either. There is no way that the cited verse constitutes a definition. About all we can say is that men are told not to spend their lives in their parent's basements.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
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