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Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
vimesey
Member
Posts: 932
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


(1)
Message 646 of 2783 (803204)
03-27-2017 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 645 by ThinAirDesigns
03-27-2017 10:27 AM


That bit must have been ghost written. It's coherent and makes sense.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 645 by ThinAirDesigns, posted 03-27-2017 10:27 AM ThinAirDesigns has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 648 by JonF, posted 03-27-2017 12:46 PM vimesey has responded

    
vimesey
Member
Posts: 932
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


(1)
Message 647 of 2783 (803210)
03-27-2017 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 645 by ThinAirDesigns
03-27-2017 10:27 AM


More seriously, of course, it's also straight out of the snake oil salesman's play book.

"Fool you ? How could I fool you, Sir ? You're clearly far too intelligent to be fooled by the likes of me."


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 645 by ThinAirDesigns, posted 03-27-2017 10:27 AM ThinAirDesigns has not yet responded

    
JonF
Member
Posts: 4481
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 648 of 2783 (803213)
03-27-2017 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 646 by vimesey
03-27-2017 10:47 AM


The whole book was ghostwritten.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 646 by vimesey, posted 03-27-2017 10:47 AM vimesey has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 649 by vimesey, posted 03-27-2017 1:33 PM JonF has not yet responded

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 932
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 649 of 2783 (803215)
03-27-2017 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 648 by JonF
03-27-2017 12:46 PM


It's certainly ghastly ;-)

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 648 by JonF, posted 03-27-2017 12:46 PM JonF has not yet responded

    
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6349
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 650 of 2783 (803231)
03-27-2017 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 631 by Percy
03-25-2017 1:45 PM


Re: Trump Approval Rating
Percy writes:

quote:
People who can't afford $2500 for healthcare are being taxed an additional $1200 and receiving nothing in return. That's not right and should be fixed.

It already has been: It's called "premium assistance" and "Medicaid." When you sign up for health insurance through the ACA, you can request to have assistance in paying for the premiums based upon your income.

And if you are poor enough, you will be eligible for Medicaid...

...assuming your state was kind enough to expand Medicaid coverage. The Supreme Court deigned that the mandated expansion of Medicaid was unconsitutional and that states should be allowed to opt out. That isn't something Congress or the President can fix (at least, not simply...if they abandoned the entire system and went with a Medicare-for-all plan, that would be a way.)

Remember, it was the Republicans in Congress that gutted the funding mechanisms for the ACA. The penalty makes perfect sense...so long as the plan to fund it is robust.


Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 631 by Percy, posted 03-25-2017 1:45 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 651 by Percy, posted 03-27-2017 6:26 PM Rrhain has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18307
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 651 of 2783 (803236)
03-27-2017 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 650 by Rrhain
03-27-2017 5:30 PM


Re: Trump Approval Rating
Rrhain writes:

quote:
People who can't afford $2500 for healthcare are being taxed an additional $1200 and receiving nothing in return. That's not right and should be fixed.

It already has been: It's called "premium assistance" and "Medicaid." When you sign up for health insurance through the ACA, you can request to have assistance in paying for the premiums based upon your income.

Yes there are subsidies, but if, say, a family of two makes $48,000/year (after deductions) and cannot afford the $2500 for the cheapest possible ACA insurance, the penalty will be $1200, for which they receive nothing in return. About 6.5 million people paid a penalty averaging $470 for the 2015 tax year (How Many Americans Paid the Obamacare Tax Penalty in 2016).

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 650 by Rrhain, posted 03-27-2017 5:30 PM Rrhain has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 652 by Rrhain, posted 03-27-2017 7:12 PM Percy has responded

    
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6349
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


(2)
Message 652 of 2783 (803240)
03-27-2017 7:12 PM
Reply to: Message 651 by Percy
03-27-2017 6:26 PM


Re: Trump Approval Rating
Percy responds to me:

quote:
Yes there are subsidies

Which means you need to be very careful about the argument you are about to make. Is it an actual example that happens in real life?

quote:
but if, say, a family of two makes $48,000/year (after deductions) and cannot afford the $2500 for the cheapest possible ACA insurance, the penalty will be $1200, for which they receive nothing in return. About 6.5 million people paid a penalty averaging $470 for the 2015 tax year (How Many Americans Paid the Obamacare Tax Penalty in 2016).

You need to read your own source or even better, the actual law. A two-person family earning $48,000 is eligible for subsidies. Plus, you have ignored the other costs involved by not having insurance. It's not merely the $1200 but the other costs for medical care that must now be paid out of pocket. If such a couple cannot afford the 9.67% of annual income for health insurance (offset by subsidies), then they're not going to be able to afford any medical treatment of any kind (the average ER bill is more than $1200 and the average hospital stay is $10,000) and we have a much bigger problem. Remember, one of the biggest problems with the old system was bankruptcy: The leading cause of bankruptcy in the US, accounting for more than half of all bankruptcies, is medical care. And that includes people who have insurance.

If the ACA had better funding mechanisms, then the subsidies would be more and be available to more people. Of course, at that point, we'd have to wonder why we're half-assing it and switch to single-payer, universal coverage paid for with taxes.


Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 651 by Percy, posted 03-27-2017 6:26 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 658 by Percy, posted 03-28-2017 7:37 AM Rrhain has not yet responded

    
marc9000
Member
Posts: 965
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 653 of 2783 (803244)
03-27-2017 7:59 PM
Reply to: Message 636 by Rrhain
03-26-2017 4:35 PM


Re: Reality
The logistical aspect is that Congress was in Republican hands with a Democratic President. Thus, the Republicans knew that they wouldn't get what they wanted and thus could grandstand and showboat and not actually try to do anything. Their entire playbook was spectacle.

There's no grandstanding and showboating going on with Democrats today? As they celebrate their latest victory of prolonging the status quo?

They've had seven years to come up with a "repeal and replace" bill. Why did they try to do it in 60 days? Oh, that's right: Because it was never about healthcare. It was never about the actual job of running a country. It was all for show.

I'd say they tried to do it in 60 days because Trump wanted it done in 60 days. It was Trump's mistake, he actually thought making deals with politicians was slightly similar to making deals in the free-market private sector with people who actually have some brains.

The practical matter is that Democrats in government behave differently than Republicans do. When you have one faction which proudly states that they think government is incapable of doing anything right, then they will act that way when in government.

They believe the government is capable of doing plenty of things right, those things are outlined in the constitution. Healthcare isn't in there.

The other faction thinks that government is sometimes the only entity capable of doing something and thus, they will act that way when in government.

Sometimes? Or all the time, despite what the 10th amendment says?

That's why, for example, Sanders is introducing a Medicare-for-all bill. It's why when the Democrats were in charge and were passing the Affordable Care Act, it took two years and the bill that was put forward was made available for everyone, including the public, to read and comment upon before it was passed.

Sanders free-for-alls, Democrats tax and spend bills, are all for one reason, to increase the size and scope of government. Can you describe any action the Democrats have attempted over the past....20 years that attempt anything that doesn't make the government bigger, first and foremost?

The Democrats are in the minority, but they are still behaving as if they have a job to do and are working to do it, even though they know that the Republicans will be against anything and everything they suggest due to their inability to let anybody think that they "caved to the Democrats."

Yes, they caved to the Democrats in allowing the ACA, and now the people are increasingly aware of its unsustainability. Democrats continue to think their only job now is to block everything the Republicans want to do, even though the voters have them in the minority. In the House, the Senate, the Presidency, and the Governorships. We'll see how it works out for them in November of 2018. As we saw, Hillary got the majority vote for the presidency, but that's only because the inner-city mobs came out to vote. They're not intelligent enough to come out for the mid-term elections. They don't know enough about how our country works to do that.

It's a bit like the way both McCain and Trump claimed that they had these wonderful plans that would solve our problems...but no, they aren't going to tell us what they are now. You'll have to wait until they get elected.

Um...if it is such a wonderful plan, spit it out! Of course, it turns out that it was all just hype, but that's the Republicans for you.

Why should they make anything public before they have to? It only would give the Democrats more time and ability to block it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 636 by Rrhain, posted 03-26-2017 4:35 PM Rrhain has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 662 by Rrhain, posted 03-28-2017 8:54 AM marc9000 has responded
 Message 664 by 14174dm, posted 03-28-2017 1:45 PM marc9000 has not yet responded
 Message 665 by NoNukes, posted 03-28-2017 3:15 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 965
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009


Message 654 of 2783 (803245)
03-27-2017 8:12 PM
Reply to: Message 637 by NoNukes
03-26-2017 6:03 PM


Re: Reality
Didn't almost all of those 'diverse' Republicans already vote to repeal the Affordable Care Act something close to 50 times? Your answer would not seem to be much cover for not coming up with an acceptable solution sometime over the last seven years.

There's never going to be an acceptable solution to the current U.S. healthcare mess, until one very non-politically correct thing is realized. New medical innovations, research and development is VERY expensive. As soon as it's applied, everyone demands it. It has to be reigned in, because our society can't afford it. When new innovations are applied, they have a higher likelihood of failure, because they're not proven yet by the test of time. As soon as the slightest thing goes wrong with them, then here come all the ambulance-chasing lawyers to get their cut. In the end, guess who pays it.

There's always a demand for new medications and treatments for the results of careless living, be it poor nutrition, laziness, or effects from the use of the illegal drugs pouring over our southern border. Those who demand it, can't afford it. They expect successful people to give it to them. More and more people riding in the wagon, and fewer and fewer people pulling the wagon. Eventually the wagon will stop.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 637 by NoNukes, posted 03-26-2017 6:03 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 656 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-27-2017 11:16 PM marc9000 has not yet responded
 Message 657 by NoNukes, posted 03-27-2017 11:47 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16085
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 10.0


(1)
Message 655 of 2783 (803255)
03-27-2017 11:13 PM
Reply to: Message 549 by petrophysics1
03-04-2017 8:16 PM


Re: This is great.
Trump is great he is doing everything he said he would.

"We’re going to bring the coal industry back 100 percent." --- Trump speaking at Radford University, Virginia, February 29, 2016.

The West’s largest coal-fired power plant is closing

Two Ohio coal-fired plants to close, deepening industry decline

Coal executive: Trump 'can't bring mining jobs back'

"We’re bringing back jobs, big league. We’re bringing them back at the plant level. We’re bringing them back at the mine level. The energy jobs are coming back." --- Trump, last Tuesday, lying as usual.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 549 by petrophysics1, posted 03-04-2017 8:16 PM petrophysics1 has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16085
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 656 of 2783 (803256)
03-27-2017 11:16 PM
Reply to: Message 654 by marc9000
03-27-2017 8:12 PM


Re: Reality
As soon as it's applied, everyone demands it. It has to be reigned in, because our society can't afford it.

The Republicans have a name for the putative people who would hypothetically do this reigning-in of which you speak.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 654 by marc9000, posted 03-27-2017 8:12 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 657 of 2783 (803257)
03-27-2017 11:47 PM
Reply to: Message 654 by marc9000
03-27-2017 8:12 PM


Re: Reality
There's never going to be an acceptable solution to the current U.S. healthcare mess, until one very non-politically correct thing is realized. New medical innovations, research and development is VERY expensive. As soon as it's applied, everyone demands it. It has to be reigned in, because our society can't afford it. When new innovations are applied, they have a higher likelihood of failure, because they're not proven yet by the test of time.

Are you advocating for some kind of rationing of health care?

I agree that there is a problem with the expensive healthcare, but I would submit that it is a combination of expensive research, as well as the failure of unregulated commerce to generate a profit motive for economic care.

But the primary problem most people face is the inability to access routine care, both emergency and preventative, at a reasonable price. Everything in health care grows at much more than the rate of inflation.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 654 by marc9000, posted 03-27-2017 8:12 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 18307
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 658 of 2783 (803272)
03-28-2017 7:37 AM
Reply to: Message 652 by Rrhain
03-27-2017 7:12 PM


Re: Trump Approval Rating
Rrhain writes:

Is it an actual example that happens in real life?

Yes, my wife's hairdresser.

You need to read your own source or even better, the actual law. A two-person family earning $48,000 is eligible for subsidies.

The $2500 cost of insurance is after subsidies.

I already understand everything you said. People who can't afford healthcare simply forgo healthcare as much as possible. It isn't right that they should pay money and receive nothing in return. They should get at least something, some kind of rock-bottom coverage perhaps. You might recall that there was a lot of argument in Congress over the penalty, and its constitutionality was challenged in court. Somehow fixing the penalty would do a lot to reduce objections to the ACA.

If the ACA had better funding mechanisms, then the subsidies would be more and be available to more people. Of course, at that point, we'd have to wonder why we're half-assing it and switch to single-payer, universal coverage paid for with taxes.

It's worth noting that Trump has occasionally advocated a single-payer system, but it's hard to know how serious he is.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 652 by Rrhain, posted 03-27-2017 7:12 PM Rrhain has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 666 by NoNukes, posted 03-28-2017 3:25 PM Percy has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 659 of 2783 (803273)
03-28-2017 7:41 AM
Reply to: Message 640 by Dr Adequate
03-27-2017 2:02 AM


Actually Fake News
DA writes:

The reality....

quote:
According to pool reports, the president spent Saturday visiting the Trump National Golf Club in Potomac Falls, Va., just outside Washington.

Trump arrived at the golf club at 11:01 a.m. Saturday, wearing a suit, a white shirt with no tie and a red hat with “USA” emblazoned on the front, a pool reporter noted. Though the traveling press pool asked multiple times about the president's activities, Trump's team did not provide answers, the report stated.

The press pool was told that Trump had “meetings” at the golf club. The presidential motorcade returned to the White House shortly after 4 p.m. Saturday, the pool report said.

By then, pictures had emerged on social media of Trump riding a golf cart and dressed in golf attire, still wearing a red hat, at Trump National Golf Club.


source


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 640 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-27-2017 2:02 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 660 of 2783 (803274)
03-28-2017 7:47 AM


Follow the money....
And the Russian Contacts simply keep bubbling to the surface. It seems that newly hired son-in-law is once again in focus.

quote:
The development coincided with the disclosure that Trump’s son-in-law and close adviser, Jared Kushner, had privately met in December with the chief executive of a Russian bank being targeted by U.S. sanctions and that Kushner has agreed to discuss such contacts with the Senate Intelligence Committee.

source


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

  
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