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Author Topic:   Gay Marriage as an attack on Christianity
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 841 of 1484 (803620)
04-02-2017 7:17 PM
Reply to: Message 837 by LamarkNewAge
04-02-2017 5:46 PM


Re: Here is the big question Faith.
Sorry,, your question makes absolutely no sense to me. I don't even get what the question is, but why you are asking it and what it has to do with this topic totally escape me. Sorry.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 837 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-02-2017 5:46 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 848 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-02-2017 8:14 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 842 of 1484 (803621)
04-02-2017 7:20 PM


This should sum up this topic
Seems to me the situation is very simple and all these side issues are irrelevant, if at least sometimes interesting, but in the end it all comes back to the situation as stated in the OP. If a [conservative Bible-believing] Christian is asked to provide a service for a gay wedding he/she has to refuse it, based on his/her understanding of God's definition of marriage given in the Bible, as between a man and a woman, which excludes two men or two women.
ABE: Since some people seem to get stuck on literal wedding cakes, it may (or may not, sigh) be clarifying to repeat what I just wrote to nwr:
If the custom for weddings in some culture was meat pies I assume a biblical Christian in that culture would have to refuse to make meat pies for a gay wedding. If the custom was marching through the streets with sparklers I assume the Christian supplier of sparklers would have to refuse to sell them for a gay wedding.
ANY service for a gay wedding is a problem for a biblical Christian.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 845 by AZPaul3, posted 04-02-2017 8:09 PM Faith has replied
 Message 864 by PaulK, posted 04-03-2017 12:32 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 923 by nwr, posted 04-04-2017 1:12 PM Faith has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 843 of 1484 (803622)
04-02-2017 7:56 PM
Reply to: Message 840 by Faith
04-02-2017 7:13 PM


Re: marriage ordinance again
Faith writes:
If the custom for weddings in some culture was meat pies I assume a biblical Christian in that culture would have to refuse to make meat pies for a gay wedding. If the custom was marching through the streets with sparklers I assume the Christian supplier of sparklers would have to refuse to sell them for a gay wedding.
Yes, we understand that is what you assume, however once again reality shows you are wrong. Throughout this and many other threads you have been shown that not only is there no real Biblical support for the position you try to market, there is overwhelming Biblical support for a biblical Christian making meat pies for a gay wedding or selling sparklers for a gay wedding.
One such lesson can be found in Message 13 and there are many other lessons you can learn throughout the thread.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 840 by Faith, posted 04-02-2017 7:13 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 844 by Faith, posted 04-02-2017 8:01 PM jar has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 844 of 1484 (803623)
04-02-2017 8:01 PM
Reply to: Message 843 by jar
04-02-2017 7:56 PM


Re: marriage ordinance again
Your reading of the Bible is irrelevant. This is a problem for conservative Bible-believers and THEIR reading determines that they can't provide a service for a gay wedding.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 843 by jar, posted 04-02-2017 7:56 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 846 by jar, posted 04-02-2017 8:09 PM Faith has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(3)
Message 845 of 1484 (803624)
04-02-2017 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 842 by Faith
04-02-2017 7:20 PM


Re: This should sum up this topic
ANY service for a gay wedding is a problem for a biblical Christian.
So the problem in this society is the biblican christian, not the gay.
We already knew that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 842 by Faith, posted 04-02-2017 7:20 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 850 by Faith, posted 04-02-2017 9:42 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 846 of 1484 (803625)
04-02-2017 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 844 by Faith
04-02-2017 8:01 PM


Re: marriage ordinance again
Faith writes:
Your reading of the Bible is irrelevant. This is a problem for conservative Bible-believers and THEIR reading determines that they can't provide a service for a gay wedding.
Correct. It is all a problem only in their minds and not based on what the Bible actually says but rather on the fantasy they have created.
Got it.
So stop implying that it has anything to do with believing in the Bible or what the Bible says or God's laws or marriage or sexuality. It is a problem created by their interpretations, a problem in their minds only and so nothing the rest of society should consider or be concerned about.
Nor are they forced to change their beliefs. They are free to continue their beliefs.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 844 by Faith, posted 04-02-2017 8:01 PM Faith has not replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member (Idle past 738 days)
Posts: 2236
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 847 of 1484 (803626)
04-02-2017 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 839 by Faith
04-02-2017 7:04 PM


Faith for secular gay marriage legality? She said this:
I just said that you felt it to be foolish for Paul to be ok with the state to allow legal gay marriage and also to allow fornication without punishment or sanction. You just responded, "None of that makes any sense ... If you are getting anything right at all, that is, and that is questionable."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 839 by Faith, posted 04-02-2017 7:04 PM Faith has not replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member (Idle past 738 days)
Posts: 2236
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 848 of 1484 (803627)
04-02-2017 8:14 PM
Reply to: Message 841 by Faith
04-02-2017 7:17 PM


Do you really not understand the question?
All I asked is if you think Paul thought the secular government of Corinth should outlaw the sexual conduct Paul objected to in chapter 5. Sex with a mother in law if I can remember. Leviticus 20:11 issue.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 841 by Faith, posted 04-02-2017 7:17 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 849 by Faith, posted 04-02-2017 9:38 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 849 of 1484 (803635)
04-02-2017 9:38 PM
Reply to: Message 848 by LamarkNewAge
04-02-2017 8:14 PM


Re: Do you really not understand the question?
I don't know Paul's opinions on what secular government should do, he never gives an opinion about such things. If I had to guess I'd say he has no opinion, secular government is entirely separate from Christian life, which it generally is when there is opposition between them as there was in the days of the Caesars.
You hava to quote your references I don't know Leviticus 20:11 by heart.
If you are talking about the incident in the Corinthian church of a man sleeping with his stepmother -- not his mother in law -- Paul told the church to excommunicate him, but then later he advised mercy on the man.
But what is your question about that? And what does it have to do with this topic?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 848 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-02-2017 8:14 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 856 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-02-2017 10:15 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 850 of 1484 (803636)
04-02-2017 9:42 PM
Reply to: Message 845 by AZPaul3
04-02-2017 8:09 PM


Re: This should sum up this topic
ANY service for a gay wedding is a problem for a biblical Christian.
So the problem in this society is the biblican christian, not the gay.
We already knew that.
True. it's a very simple situation, not requiring all this hot air.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 845 by AZPaul3, posted 04-02-2017 8:09 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 851 by AZPaul3, posted 04-02-2017 9:52 PM Faith has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 851 of 1484 (803637)
04-02-2017 9:52 PM
Reply to: Message 850 by Faith
04-02-2017 9:42 PM


Re: This should sum up this topic
So the problem in this society is the biblican christian, not the gay.
We already knew that.
True. it's a very simple situation, not requiring all this hot air.
The solution is also very simple. Stop being a bigot.
If these people really are christian then there should be a way to be a good christian without the practice of hateful discrimination. As I recall, that is supposed to be a main feature of being a christian.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 850 by Faith, posted 04-02-2017 9:42 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 852 by Faith, posted 04-02-2017 9:55 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 852 of 1484 (803638)
04-02-2017 9:55 PM
Reply to: Message 851 by AZPaul3
04-02-2017 9:52 PM


Re: This should sum up this topic
Christians are kind to everybody including sinners but we don't support sin itself, we don't treat sin as not-sin, we don't support violations of God's laws. Sorry.
Misstatement. See Message 854
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 851 by AZPaul3, posted 04-02-2017 9:52 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 853 by AZPaul3, posted 04-02-2017 10:01 PM Faith has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 853 of 1484 (803639)
04-02-2017 10:01 PM
Reply to: Message 852 by Faith
04-02-2017 9:55 PM


Re: This should sum up this topic
Christians are kind to everybody including sinners but we don't support sin itself. Sorry.
Refusing to do business with someone because of their sins, and only some specifically selected sins at that, is hardly kind. It is, in essence, casting stones at them. The rest of the phrase you already know.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 852 by Faith, posted 04-02-2017 9:55 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 854 by Faith, posted 04-02-2017 10:05 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied
 Message 861 by Faith, posted 04-02-2017 10:29 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 854 of 1484 (803640)
04-02-2017 10:05 PM
Reply to: Message 853 by AZPaul3
04-02-2017 10:01 PM


Re: This should sum up this topic
Well, I put that wrong. It happens. It's not because of their sins it's because of God's ordinance of marriage. Violating that IS a sin but I should be more careful about the necessary distinctions. The objection is to gay marriage, not to gays, as has been said over and over. Nothing is denied to them except service for a wedding.
We obey God and not man.
Sorry.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 853 by AZPaul3, posted 04-02-2017 10:01 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 855 by jar, posted 04-02-2017 10:13 PM Faith has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 855 of 1484 (803641)
04-02-2017 10:13 PM
Reply to: Message 854 by Faith
04-02-2017 10:05 PM


Re: This should sum up this topic
Faith writes:
It's not because of their sins it's because of God's ordinance of marriage.
But as you pointed out just above that is not true either. It's not God's ordinance that is the issue but rather a limited sect of Christians interpretations that are the issue.
It's not God telling you what to do it is those folk marketing some interpretation.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 854 by Faith, posted 04-02-2017 10:05 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 857 by Faith, posted 04-02-2017 10:19 PM jar has replied

  
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