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Author Topic:   Is Wikipedia Always A Reliable Source?
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 15 (804064)
04-06-2017 8:15 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Modulous
04-03-2017 1:57 PM


And so it is. It is arguing that evolution is false because if it were true then the consequence would be that we are no better than animals. Which, the implication goes, is not to be desired.
I think mike the wiz thinks that this is a great argument. Hidden behind this is an acceptance as fact the evolution from animals could not produce a human. Given this hidden assumption, then the argument will appear in this form:
X -->Y. (evolution from animals produces nothing more than animals.)
Not Y, therefore not X. humans are better than animals (or humans are not "nothing more than animals") therefore man did not evolve from an animal.
The above is a perfectly good syllogism. But it is not the one presented in the example
Perhaps a better way to express things would be that from MTW's perspective, the Wikipedia article on logic is showing a bias towards science (and I would say reality) because they do not disclose the unstated possibility that evolution can produce a superior being.
I would counter that such expressions are wrong. A logical argument is one in which the conclusions flow inevitably from the premises. Accordingly, even if an alternative is unstated, the mere existence of a possible fact that makes the argument flawed is enough. The person insisting that an argument is of the Modus Ponens form has the obligation to defend it against all possibilities, stated or unstated, regardless of whether those possibilities are true, false, or mere supposition. In this case, that defense cannot be accomplished.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : Grammar fixes.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Modulous, posted 04-03-2017 1:57 PM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by mike the wiz, posted 05-03-2017 4:43 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 15 (804065)
04-06-2017 8:19 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Modulous
04-03-2017 1:57 PM


Free will must exist: if it didn't, we would all be machines."
What if we added to these statements, the following: But we are not just machines, therefore free will exists. I think mike the wiz is silently adding that to the syllogism and then evaluating his modification rather than what was actually presented as the example.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Modulous, posted 04-03-2017 1:57 PM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by mike the wiz, posted 05-03-2017 4:45 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 15 (807547)
05-03-2017 7:34 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by mike the wiz
05-03-2017 4:45 PM


Those telepathic abilities must be greatly valued by the readers.
My comment was a hypothesis and was phrased a such.
A correctly formed Modus Ponens argument does not rely on the truth or the obviousness of the clauses. It is instead an argument that one should accept provided that the clauses are correct. Similar a flawed argument can reach a correct conclusion, but some arguments are nonviable strictly based on their form. Your arguments suggested that some of the trigger clauses that were supposed to be appeals to consequences were something other than that. My best guess is still that you believe they were actually true.
Your objections were drawn to other things than the form of the argument. I took a guess at why you might be doing that. If my guess is wrong, then perhaps the reason you are off base is more subtle.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by mike the wiz, posted 05-03-2017 4:45 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
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