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Author Topic:   The Nonsense of Revelation 13 Economics
jar
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Posts: 34047
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.7


(1)
Message 65 of 274 (586048)
10-10-2010 9:51 PM


More on the likely reality of Revelation
As I pointed out in Message 24 above, the author of Revelation is very likely talking about the Roman Empire as it existed at that time.
Under Tiberius, the Jews were relatively protected, the area was quasi independent under Herod and they were seen as a Protected Class. They were allowed their customs and prerogatives.
Tiberius was followed by the short reign of Caligula and while we cannot be sure of some of the tales told about him, the fact is that after less than a four year reign he was assassinated.
The next emperor was Claudius, and this is where it's likely the author of John draws his first beast. Claudius conquers most of the areas around the northern boundaries of the Med removing local rule and making them part of the Empire instead of allied States. While he reaffirmed Jewish rights throughout the Empire, he Conquered Judaea and removed its quasi independent status.
Claudius was followed by Nero who is likely the Emperor in power at the time Revelation is written. Nero is the Emperor in power at the beginning of the first Jewish War, the Great Revolt.
Nero is followed by a period of great unrest when emperor after emperor is overthrown, four emperors in just over one year.
It was a period when it was easy to imagine the end of the world, that the END TIMES were upon them.
And so the author of Revelation begins...
quote:
1The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2who testifies to everything he sawthat is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by ICANT, posted 10-10-2010 10:27 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34047
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 67 of 274 (586055)
10-10-2010 10:15 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by ICANT
10-10-2010 10:04 PM


Re: Attractive Rabbit Hole warning
Of course I can. Don't be silly. The assertions was
buz writes:
Biblically/prophetically, this is on tract, corroborating other end time prophecies. Why? Because it is prophesied in the book of Revelation, chapter 13 that all nations, tribes and tongues will, in the apocalyptic end times be required to buy or sell via marks and numbers implanted in the right hand or forehead.
I see this as relevant to what's going on. All global currencies will fail, necessitating a global monetary system in which all money is globally regulated and secured by a global government so as to be totally safe from theft and/or inflation. Christians are forbidden to receive this mark; thus the great tribulation and global persecution of Christians (also prophesied by Jesus and the apostles).
There is NOTHING in the passage he mentions about any imagined Global Monetary system or Christian being forbidden to get the Mark or about all global currencies failing.
One, Two, Three strikes your out...
quote:
16He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.
18This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.
Buz assertion is refuted. The MARK being a Monetary system is refuted.
Revelation is over, done, talking about long, long ago. Your attempts at misdirecting the audience attention have failed yet again, just like almost all Biblical Prophecy.
And of course I believe the Bible, I just don't believe nonsense interpretations and misrepresentation of what is said in the Bible.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by ICANT, posted 10-10-2010 10:04 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by ICANT, posted 10-10-2010 10:31 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34047
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 71 of 274 (586061)
10-10-2010 10:32 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by ICANT
10-10-2010 10:27 PM


Re: More on the likely reality of Revelation
Only if you accept the late date or that the prophecies were not for the immediate period. Even if the later date is accepted everything in Revelation is still almost 2000 years in the past.
In case you missed it...
quote:
1The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2who testifies to everything he sawthat is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.
Remember an even more likely explanation is that Revelation is just all failed prophecy.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by ICANT, posted 10-10-2010 10:27 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by ICANT, posted 10-11-2010 9:57 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34047
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 72 of 274 (586062)
10-10-2010 10:35 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by ICANT
10-10-2010 10:31 PM


Re: Attractive Rabbit Hole warning
ICANT writes:
Then tell me what the mark in Revelation 13:16 is then.
You can't refute an unknown.
Of course I can, even without knowing anything more than that it is supposed to be the name of the Beast.
It is NOT a monetary system.
You will not get far with silly assertions and con games. You can't palm the pea.
Edited by jar, : appalin spallin

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 69 by ICANT, posted 10-10-2010 10:31 PM ICANT has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34047
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 84 of 274 (586128)
10-11-2010 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by ICANT
10-11-2010 9:57 AM


Re: More on the likely reality of Revelation
ICANT writes:
Why wouldn't I accept the late date?
The evidence requires the late date.
As I said, even with the late date it is still talking about stuff that happened nearly 2000 years ago.
ICANT writes:
In case you missed it...
I did not miss it.
What is soon or the time being near for you is one thing because you are a human limited by time.
Soon and near to an eternal being can be thousands of years.
What is the arguement long day people use oh "a thousand years is the same as a day with the Lord".
Which is still irrelevant and just shows that you have no understanding of the function of a Biblical Prophet.
Prophecy is always immediate. The prophet is carrying a message from God to a people. It is a telegram, a dope slap, an immediate warning.
It is not about things that will happen thousands of years in the future unless the God is an idiot and totally incompetent.
For God to give the author of Revelation a message to write down for the use of people still in our future, is just stupid.
ICANT writes:
Why is it more likely?
If you care to start another thread and put forth all the failed prophecies you believe exist in Revelation we could discuss those and those fulfilled and those yet to be fulfilled.
It's a short list. I know of NO fulfilled Biblical Prophecy.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by ICANT, posted 10-11-2010 9:57 AM ICANT has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34047
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 93 of 274 (761125)
06-28-2015 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by Jeremy86
06-28-2015 2:43 PM


An interesting epistle but does it have anything to do with the topic?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Jeremy86, posted 06-28-2015 2:43 PM Jeremy86 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Straightshot, posted 08-25-2015 5:13 PM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34047
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 187 of 274 (781547)
04-05-2016 8:32 AM
Reply to: Message 186 by starlite
04-04-2016 11:14 PM


Except of course for the fact that there is no mention of money.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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 Message 186 by starlite, posted 04-04-2016 11:14 PM starlite has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34047
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 189 of 274 (781565)
04-05-2016 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 188 by Phat
04-05-2016 10:08 AM


Re: As Long As We Are Making Stuff Up....
Phat writes:
Granted if we read what the Bible actually says there is no mention of money. The only hint we get is the "buy nor sell" thing. Just because the book doesn't say something never seems to stop people from making stuff up. If enough of us make up the same stories, and claim that God inspired us...who is to stop us from marketing it as truth? Its a book of stories anyway. Why not embellish a few?
There is no problem there as long as it's clear that you are talking about YOUR fantasy and not the fantasy of John of Patmos who might also be a fantasy.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by Phat, posted 04-05-2016 10:08 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 190 by Phat, posted 04-05-2016 10:19 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34047
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 191 of 274 (781570)
04-05-2016 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 190 by Phat
04-05-2016 10:19 AM


Re: As Long As We Are Making Stuff Up....
Back to the topic and thread.
Phat writes:
Keep in mind that when I say "embellish" I do not mean that im not speaking of at least a possible truth as I understand it.
But the sub-forum is the Bible, Accuracy and Inerrancy and a thread about the economics as described in Revelation 13.
Fantasies created externally to what is actually written may be interesting but have nothing to do with what is actually written in the fantasy known as The Book of Revelation.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by Phat, posted 04-05-2016 10:19 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by Phat, posted 04-05-2016 10:32 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34047
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 193 of 274 (781573)
04-05-2016 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 192 by Phat
04-05-2016 10:32 AM


Re: As Long As We Are Making Stuff Up....
Phat writes:
Can I not be allowed to have any opinions,ideas...dare I say prophecies about what it actually means?
Sure, you can have any fantasies you like but you cannot claim the book says anything but what the book says.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by Phat, posted 04-05-2016 10:32 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34047
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 197 of 274 (803927)
04-05-2017 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 196 by Davidjay
04-05-2017 5:06 PM


Sorry Charlie but only a fool would compare the system in Revelation to credit cards
Davidjay writes:
Revelation 13 describes the chip monetary system which is now being introduced in different ways through out the world, and the enthralled and shallow are taking it voluntarily as a socalled faster, safer way to do their banking, buying and selling.
Bullshit. Sorry Charlie but that is simply another falsehood from you.
Revelation refers to things that were supposed to have happened over a thousand years ago and is just yet another example of the many failed prophecies found in the Bible stories.
What is described as an economic system in Revelation is utterly stupid and could never work. It is absurd and only a fool would consider it as anything but the rantings of someone totally ignorant of economics. The so called Mark does not even identify the purchaser or seller and so is worthless as anything except fantasy.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

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 Message 196 by Davidjay, posted 04-05-2017 5:06 PM Davidjay has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34047
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.7


(1)
Message 200 of 274 (803973)
04-06-2017 7:11 AM
Reply to: Message 199 by Dredge
04-06-2017 6:13 AM


Dredge writes:
The "mark of the beast" may not be something physical. It may be refer to a refusal to conform to the Zeitgeist that will lead to exclusion of some kind. For example, anyone who opposes evolution will be black-banned from being employed by a university ... or anyone who refuses to bake a cake for a same-sex marriage will not be able to own a bakery ... etc, etc, etc. Think of the Nazi exclusion of Jews from German society, but in a different context.
And in typical True Christian fashion you simply start making shit up instead of actually reading what was written. It always amazes me how True Christians always try to make up fantasies to make the Bible and the God they create and market fit their storyline and yet claim they believe in the Bible.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by Dredge, posted 04-06-2017 6:13 AM Dredge has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34047
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 204 of 274 (804094)
04-07-2017 7:25 AM
Reply to: Message 203 by PaulK
04-07-2017 12:23 AM


the preachers are mostly not idiots
PaulK writes:
Now go away and try reading the Bible instead of falling for the nonsense invented by idiot preachers.
The preachers for the most part are not idiots. They are often very bright and understand that True Christians are taught to check their brains at the door, to believe source over content and that they are incapable of even reading and must have everything interpreted for them. The preachers know they have willing dupes that desire to be conned, that will believe things so obviously false (like the inerrant Bible) and so will buy any nonsense that the preachers market as testimony.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by PaulK, posted 04-07-2017 12:23 AM PaulK has not replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34047
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 207 of 274 (804123)
04-07-2017 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 205 by Davidjay
04-07-2017 9:42 AM


Re: Correcting Jar's Opening Comments
Davidjay writes:
Jar because you only did a superficiasl reading of Revelation 13, you have numerous mistakes. Remember prophecy is an exact design of the Lord for the future, just as history from the beginning is an exact design of the past, straight from the beginning without missing links.
Sorry but that is simply another falsehood. Almost all examples of Biblical prophecy have failed. Biblical prophecy is simply a history of failure after failure spawning a business of apologists who get to make shit up for the willfully ignorant True Christians.
Revelation is a classic example of apocalyptic literature that was supposed to have happened over a thousand years ago and is not just ancient history but false ancient history.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by Davidjay, posted 04-07-2017 9:42 AM Davidjay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 208 by Davidjay, posted 04-07-2017 9:55 AM jar has replied
 Message 211 by Davidjay, posted 04-07-2017 12:08 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 34047
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 209 of 274 (804132)
04-07-2017 10:18 AM
Reply to: Message 208 by Davidjay
04-07-2017 9:55 AM


Re: Correcting Jar's Opening Comments
Davidjay writes:
No prophecy has ever failed, majority of people fail to understand prophecy because they dont listen to the Lord and see only the bark of their pet peeve rather than the tree or the forest.
What you mean is the conmen ministers can make up explanations for the failures. Sorry but if you want to start yet another thread on the nonsense called Biblical prophecy feel free to do so as long as you stick to one prophecy at a time.
Asserting absurdities like "No prophecy has ever failed" will not fly here.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by Davidjay, posted 04-07-2017 9:55 AM Davidjay has not replied

  
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