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Author Topic:   How do you define the word Evolution?
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 211 of 936 (805014)
04-15-2017 12:47 AM
Reply to: Message 208 by CRR
04-14-2017 11:58 PM


Re: Nobel Prize winners ????
Can you substantiate that claim that creationists have invented the term "evolutionists"? This sounds like the discredited claim that Creationists invented the terms micro- and macroevolution.
Perhaps if they didn't invent the term, creationists are pretty much the only ones using it now.
And by that they mean anyone in the sciences whose results they disagree with.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by CRR, posted 04-14-2017 11:58 PM CRR has replied

Replies to this message:
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CRR
Member (Idle past 2242 days)
Posts: 579
From: Australia
Joined: 10-19-2016


Message 212 of 936 (805028)
04-15-2017 2:27 AM
Reply to: Message 210 by Dr Adequate
04-15-2017 12:20 AM


Antibiotic resistance
Thanks Doc, I have amended my message 141, EvC Forum: How do you define the word Evolution? , using this as an example.

This message is a reply to:
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CRR
Member (Idle past 2242 days)
Posts: 579
From: Australia
Joined: 10-19-2016


Message 213 of 936 (805029)
04-15-2017 2:36 AM
Reply to: Message 211 by Coyote
04-15-2017 12:47 AM


Re: Nobel Prize winners ????
So you're retracting then? Don't worry, I won't inform Retraction Watch.
And I did give an example of an evolutionist who uses the term for himself. A few minutes on an internet search engine will turn up others.

This message is a reply to:
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CRR
Member (Idle past 2242 days)
Posts: 579
From: Australia
Joined: 10-19-2016


Message 214 of 936 (805030)
04-15-2017 2:44 AM
Reply to: Message 209 by Dr Adequate
04-15-2017 12:09 AM


Pardon my ellipsis. Samples of bacteria obtained from the frozen remains of the Franklin Expedition, well before medical antibiotic use, showed that a very small proportion of the bacteria already had resistance to several antibiotics.
Similar results have been found with other preserved samples of pre antibiotic era bacteria.
On the other hand where an antibiotic is discontinued the bacteria gradually lose resistance.
When are you going to post YOUR definition of evolution?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-15-2017 12:09 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 215 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-15-2017 2:57 AM CRR has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 215 of 936 (805032)
04-15-2017 2:57 AM
Reply to: Message 214 by CRR
04-15-2017 2:44 AM


Pardon my ellipsis. Samples of bacteria obtained from the frozen remains of the Franklin Expedition, well before medical antibiotic use, showed that a very small proportion of the bacteria already had resistance to several antibiotics.
Similar results have been found with other preserved samples of pre antibiotic era bacteria.
On the other hand where an antibiotic is discontinued the bacteria gradually lose resistance.
Then if you were aware that evolution is not Lamarckian, why did you ask if it was? There is enough genuine ignorance among creationists without you feigning ignorance on one of those occasions when you actually possess knowledge.
When are you going to post YOUR definition of evolution?
On the 27th of last month; though of course it is not "my" definition, it is the one used by everyone who can remember their middle-school biology classes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by CRR, posted 04-15-2017 2:44 AM CRR has replied

Replies to this message:
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Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 216 of 936 (805035)
04-15-2017 6:29 AM
Reply to: Message 186 by Dredge
04-14-2017 7:37 PM


Re: Evolutions have discovered no new laws.. NONE
Dredge writes:
In other words, this is just more mendacious bs from Darwinists and their irrelevant space-cadet biology (aka atheist theology).
aka facts you apparently need to deny in order to keep hold if your silly beliefs.
However, it really doesn't matter, regardless of all those uses - which you denied could be produced - knowledge is useful for its own sake.
And you haven't yet produced the practical uses of your imagined belief system.
No response yet to the peppered moth proof of beneficial mutation either. You are hiding away aren't you. Facts just too hard for you to look?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
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CRR
Member (Idle past 2242 days)
Posts: 579
From: Australia
Joined: 10-19-2016


Message 217 of 936 (805049)
04-15-2017 8:35 AM
Reply to: Message 215 by Dr Adequate
04-15-2017 2:57 AM


On the 27th of last month...
So you did, although it is dated 28/3/17.
Heritable changes in a population.
That's good. There is nothing in that definition that I, as a Young Earth Creationist, would object to. If that's all evolution is you can call me an evolutionist.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-15-2017 2:57 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 219 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-15-2017 9:41 AM CRR has replied
 Message 250 by Dredge, posted 04-16-2017 8:43 PM CRR has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 218 of 936 (805050)
04-15-2017 9:09 AM
Reply to: Message 217 by CRR
04-15-2017 8:35 AM


CRR writes:
There is nothing in that definition that I, as a Young Earth Creationist, would object to.
It is not the fact of evolution or the Theory of Evolution that refutes Young Earth Creationism but rather the Bible and reality that show that position is simply absurd.
First, there is not just one creation myth in the Bible but at least two and they disagree on the order of creation, the method of creation and even the description of the God characters.
In addition, reality shows that the order listed in either fable are simply wrong.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 219 of 936 (805054)
04-15-2017 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 217 by CRR
04-15-2017 8:35 AM


So you did, although it is dated 28/3/17.
We are in different time zones.
That's good. There is nothing in that definition that I, as a Young Earth Creationist, would object to.
I should hope not. You people have got to learn that it's not within your power to change the meanings of scientific terms.
If that's all evolution is you can call me an evolutionist.
I cannot, since the term "evolutionist" is generally reserved for people who accept the evidence for large quantities of evolution, whereas you, as I understand it, ignore the evidence and deny the inference.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by CRR, posted 04-15-2017 8:35 AM CRR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by CRR, posted 04-16-2017 6:19 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 220 of 936 (805089)
04-15-2017 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 201 by Faith
04-14-2017 11:00 PM


Faith writes:
Dredge has a different approach to these things than I do but I understand what he's saying and agree with him even if I have my own different angle on it and some terminology needs to be sorted out to show our agreement.
It's like a parakeet fighting with his own reflection in the mirror.

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Astrophile
Member (Idle past 127 days)
Posts: 92
From: United Kingdom
Joined: 02-10-2014


Message 221 of 936 (805098)
04-15-2017 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by jar
04-14-2017 10:09 AM


Re: yeast is yeast and vest is vest
The breeding example is one that always provides me a chuckle.
Sheep existed before they were being bred domestically.
Sheep still exist that have not been bred domestically.
Both evolved and it's actually possible to genetically tell if a sample is from a wild or domestic sheep.
Pigs existed before they were being bred domestically.
Pigs still exist that have not been bred domestically.
Both evolved and it's actually possible to genetically tell if a sample is from a wild or domestic pig.
Canines existed before they were being bred domestically.
Canines still exist that have not been bred domestically.
Both evolved and it's actually possible to genetically tell if a sample is from a wild or domestic canine.
And we can go on and on, species after species, animal after animal including the human animals.
I suppose that the same thing is true of domesticated plants, e.g. cereals, fruit, potatoes, carrots, onions, cabbages and roses.

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Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 222 of 936 (805115)
04-15-2017 8:13 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by jar
04-13-2017 8:28 PM


Re: Luck & Chance
You disagree with my claim that if life is to be fashioned out of atoms, it is done either by design or random accidents (chance). Instead of just grunting, "Bullshit" (as per usual), please offer an explaination of how life could be fashioned if not by either design or chance.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

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 Message 166 by jar, posted 04-13-2017 8:28 PM jar has replied

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Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


(1)
Message 223 of 936 (805116)
04-15-2017 8:39 PM
Reply to: Message 198 by Dr Adequate
04-14-2017 10:18 PM


Re: Nobel Prize winners ????
A highschool-level of biology, some common sense, a nose for bs, respect for scientific rigour and a dose of honesty is all one needs to realise that ToE is, at the very least, a very suspect theory. And then, when you add the atheism factor; the fanatical, intolerant dogmatism; Darwinists' penchant for using misleading terminology and making bogus claims as to the usefulness of ToE, it becomes pretty obvious what is going on.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 226 by dwise1, posted 04-16-2017 12:22 AM Dredge has not replied
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 224 of 936 (805117)
04-15-2017 8:51 PM
Reply to: Message 223 by Dredge
04-15-2017 8:39 PM


Re: Nobel Prize winners ????
A highschool-level of biology, some common sense, a nose for bs, respect for scientific rigour and a dose of honesty is all one needs to realise that ToE is, at the very least, a very suspect theory.
You left out an unhealthy dose of creationism, as that's the primary impetus for doubting the theory of evolution.
Once creationist belief has been inculcated in someone, evidence no longer matters.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by Dredge, posted 04-15-2017 8:39 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 225 of 936 (805123)
04-15-2017 10:41 PM
Reply to: Message 223 by Dredge
04-15-2017 8:39 PM


Re: Nobel Prize winners ????
A highschool-level of biology, some common sense, a nose for bs, respect for scientific rigour and a dose of honesty is all one needs to realise that ToE is, at the very least, a very suspect theory.
Ok, so I take it this is the first sentence of your book describing your fabulous new scientific theory that will replace the current Theory of Evolution and account for all the evidence, all the observations, all the genetics, all the chemistry, all the fossils that we think the Theory of Evolution explains.
And then, when you add the atheism factor; the fanatical, intolerant dogmatism; Darwinists' penchant for using misleading terminology and making bogus claims as to the usefulness of ToE, it becomes pretty obvious what is going on.
What is the the "atheism factor"? I don't remember reading it in any of the books or papers published about the Theory of Evolution.
Do you have any examples of "intolerant dogmatism" that you would like to share?
And then"Darwinists' penchant for using misleading terminology" must really get under your skin. How dare they use scientific jargon that relates directly and specifically to biology and evolution.
And finding useful explanations from the Theory of Evolution is intolerable.
it becomes pretty obvious what is going on.
Apparently, you suspect that an evolutionary biologist pissed in your cornflakes, otherwise, why would you get your panties in a bunch and spend so much time alerting the whole web about how nasty WE are?

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

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