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Author Topic:   The TRVE history of the Flood...
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


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Message 211 of 1352 (805436)
04-18-2017 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 209 by Faith
04-18-2017 1:23 PM


Re: the idea of more than one biblical flood is what's silly, AND the date of course
Faith writes:
No.
If your "explanation" doesn't explain non-sedementary layers, then it isn't an explanation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by Faith, posted 04-18-2017 1:23 PM Faith has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 212 of 1352 (805437)
04-18-2017 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 203 by Faith
04-18-2017 1:10 PM


Re: the idea of more than one biblical flood is what's silly, AND the date of course
quote:
I didn't say anything about violence. The strata have all the earmarks of following Walther's Law, the layering of different sediments by the rising of the oceans, which of course would describe the first phase of the Flood
So, the "first stage" didn't produce the sediments you would expect from flooding, instead it looks like sea level rises over a very long period of time. Why would it do that ? Or are you suggesting that the first stage took tens or even hundreds of thousands of years ?
quote:
Walther's Law also describes SIMULTANEOUS layering, so that the idea that one layer succeeded another is false,
Not exactly. In any vertical section the law of superposition is followed for obvious reasons. In fact it is probably better to say that the layer was NOT simultaneously deposited - the base of the stratum in one place may have been deposited later than the base in another.

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 Message 203 by Faith, posted 04-18-2017 1:10 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 213 of 1352 (805438)
04-18-2017 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by Dr Adequate
04-18-2017 1:27 PM


Re: the idea of more than one biblical flood is what's silly, AND the date of course
So the meanders were cut after most of the Flood had drained away, leaving flat plains in some areas, across which some streams continued to flow, such as the Kaibab Plateau. the meanders are all far to the East in the canyon, right?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-18-2017 1:27 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 215 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-18-2017 1:40 PM Faith has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 214 of 1352 (805439)
04-18-2017 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 208 by Faith
04-18-2017 1:22 PM


Re: On "opinions"
I don't claim I have to see living dinosaurs, the bones are good enough evidence for their existence in the past.
Why?
But there is nothing IN the past to verify your theory of the isotopes.
What is there in the past to verify your dinosaurs theory?

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 Message 208 by Faith, posted 04-18-2017 1:22 PM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 215 of 1352 (805440)
04-18-2017 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 213 by Faith
04-18-2017 1:31 PM


Re: the idea of more than one biblical flood is what's silly, AND the date of course
So the meanders were cut after most of the Flood had drained away, leaving flat plains in some areas, across which some streams continued to flow, such as the Kaibab Plateau. the meanders are all far to the East in the canyon, right?
So you're willing to claim that a meander that deep and wide could have been incised by ordinary non-magical water in a mere 4000 years?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by Faith, posted 04-18-2017 1:31 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 216 by Faith, posted 04-18-2017 2:32 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 216 of 1352 (805443)
04-18-2017 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 215 by Dr Adequate
04-18-2017 1:40 PM


Re: the idea of more than one biblical flood is what's silly, AND the date of course
I think a lot less than 4000, maybe even less than a hundred.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-18-2017 1:40 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-18-2017 2:40 PM Faith has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 217 of 1352 (805444)
04-18-2017 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 208 by Faith
04-18-2017 1:22 PM


Re: On "opinions"
But there is nothing IN the past to verify your theory of the isotopes.
Actually, it does turn out that there is evidence of what decay rates were in the past. SN1987 for example gives us current visual evidence of what decay rates were 160,000 years ago. Polonium halo rings tell us about decay rates millions of years ago. Either of those data points is long enough ago to provide evidence of the constancy of decay rates over a period well in excess of the mere 10,000 years needed to discredit flood dates and a Creation week of the type that you insist on.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by Faith, posted 04-18-2017 1:22 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 218 of 1352 (805445)
04-18-2017 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 216 by Faith
04-18-2017 2:32 PM


Re: the idea of more than one biblical flood is what's silly, AND the date of course
I think a lot less than 4000, maybe even less than a hundred.
Then you don't get to say that it's "absurd" to think that the Grand Canyon could have been carved in millions of years.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by Faith, posted 04-18-2017 2:32 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 219 by Faith, posted 04-18-2017 4:14 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 219 of 1352 (805454)
04-18-2017 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 218 by Dr Adequate
04-18-2017 2:40 PM


Re: the idea of more than one biblical flood is what's silly, AND the date of course
I don't think that river could have carved out the BREADTH of that canyon even in a million years. It might cut down fairly deep.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-18-2017 2:40 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 221 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-18-2017 4:41 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 220 of 1352 (805455)
04-18-2017 4:18 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by NoNukes
04-18-2017 2:40 PM


Re: On "opinions"
The point is, as long as you have no way of actually seeing into the past, all your dates are guesses about how long anything would have taken in reality. Tou only have today's rates to extrapolate from. I agree it seems quite reasonable but reasonable isn't proven.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by jar, posted 04-18-2017 4:43 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 223 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-18-2017 4:43 PM Faith has replied
 Message 224 by Coyote, posted 04-18-2017 4:48 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 242 by NoNukes, posted 04-18-2017 9:40 PM Faith has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 221 of 1352 (805457)
04-18-2017 4:41 PM
Reply to: Message 219 by Faith
04-18-2017 4:14 PM


Re: the idea of more than one biblical flood is what's silly, AND the date of course
I don't think that river could have carved out the BREADTH of that canyon even in a million years. It might cut down fairly deep.
But the breadth is just a function of the depth, and of the physical properties of the rock.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 219 by Faith, posted 04-18-2017 4:14 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 226 by Faith, posted 04-18-2017 5:00 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 222 of 1352 (805458)
04-18-2017 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by Faith
04-18-2017 4:18 PM


Re: On "opinions"
Faith writes:
The point is, as long as you have no way of actually seeing into the past, all your dates are guesses about how long anything would have taken in reality.
The point is that those who are honest and not willfully ignorant do have many different ways to see into the past, in fact into the far distant past of billions of years ago. It is only the willfully ignorant, the dishonest and the deluded that are unable to see into the past.
And no, the reality is that it is not just guesses. It is the result of evidence, observation, honesty and attention to detail.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 223 of 1352 (805459)
04-18-2017 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by Faith
04-18-2017 4:18 PM


Re: On "opinions"
The point is, as long as you have no way of actually seeing into the past, all your dates are guesses about how long anything would have taken in reality.
"As you have no way of actually seeing into the past, your dinosaur theory is a guess about how we got all those fossils."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by Faith, posted 04-18-2017 4:18 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 225 by Faith, posted 04-18-2017 4:51 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 224 of 1352 (805461)
04-18-2017 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by Faith
04-18-2017 4:18 PM


Re: On "opinions"
The point is, as long as you have no way of actually seeing into the past, all your dates are guesses about how long anything would have taken in reality.
But we do have ways to see into the past! Archaeology, geology, paleontology, sedimentology, genetics, and many other fields let us do just that!
And the information from these fields forms a comprehensive picture of the past. This is not a wild-ass guess.
Tou only have today's rates to extrapolate from.
And that's enough to show that the rates are constant.
If you want to show that the rates vary all over the place, it is up to you to prove it. At this point all you have is belief and wishful thinking.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
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If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

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Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 225 of 1352 (805462)
04-18-2017 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 223 by Dr Adequate
04-18-2017 4:43 PM


Re: On "opinions"
As you have no way of actually seeing into the past, your dinosaur theory is a guess about how we got all those fossils."
That's true. Everything in the past is a matter of interpretation. The advantage we believers in the bible have is that we actually have a document that describes an event in the past. You guys have nothing but guesses.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-18-2017 4:43 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 228 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-18-2017 5:05 PM Faith has replied
 Message 234 by Tangle, posted 04-18-2017 5:18 PM Faith has replied

  
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