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Author | Topic: How do you define the word Evolution? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Dr. Adequate: "Dredge was de-nouncing speciation ... just the other week."
Dredgeconfesses that his understanding of the definition of speciation was flawed. Dredge now understands the definition of speciation and realizes that speciation is a fact - but he also realizes that speciation isn't evidence for the theory that all life evolved from a common ancestor.
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Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Theodosius Dobzhansky: "Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution."
Mr. Dobzhansky, why have you drooled this stupid lie? Nothing in applied biology depends on your useless atheist theology - that all life evolved from a common ancestor - or will ever depend on it. Science is defined by observation and experiments; so go away, silly atheist space cadet.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2106 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Science is defined by observation and experiments... Whereas religion is defined by belief in ancient (or sometimes even modern) folk tales, often in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. (Pots should be wary of calling the kettle black...)Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
I take your point. When you think about it, inanimate matter becoming animate matter is a form of evolution.
But I understand atheists' reluctance to tackle abiogenesis and their insistence on separating it from evolution - even the vivid imaginations of atheist scientists can't come up with an plausible explanation. So best to separate it and sweep it under the carpet; out of sight and out of mind.
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Dredge Member Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Thank you. Percy, for this clear and concise explanation. Since, as you say, the antibiotic doesn't change the way bacteria populations mutate, how is it possible to determine if particular post-antibiotic mutations are due to the antibiotic or due to "natural" mutations (that may have occurred without the antibiotic)?
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 284 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
I take your point. When you think about it, inanimate matter becoming animate matter is a form of evolution. Nope.
But I understand atheists' reluctance to tackle abiogenesis and their insistence on separating it from evolution - even the vivid imaginations of atheist scientists can't come up with an plausible explanation. So best to separate it and sweep it under the carpet; out of sight and out of mind. What an interesting fantasy world you live in.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 284 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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Thank you. Percy, for this clear and concise explanation. Since, as you say, the antibiotic doesn't change the way bacteria populations mutate, how is it possible to determine if particular post-antibiotic mutations are due to the antibiotic or due to "natural" mutations (that may have occurred without the antibiotic)? That's easy. None of them is "due to the antibiotic" because evolution doesn't work that way. You ... you really don't know anything about evolution, do you? So why are you discussing it?
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 284 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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Theodosius Dobzhansky: "Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution." Mr. Dobzhansky, why have you drooled this stupid lie? Nothing in applied biology depends on your useless atheist theology - that all life evolved from a common ancestor - or will ever depend on it. Science is defined by observation and experiments; so go away, silly atheist space cadet. Your petulant anger at people who know more than you do is most amusing.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 284 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Dredge confesses that his understanding of the definition of speciation was flawed. Dredge now understands the definition of speciation and realizes that speciation is a fact You're welcome. I wonder how long it will take me to disabuse you of all your other naive misconceptions.
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3941 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
JonF writes: CRR writes: Here's one example of a secular trained geologist who made the switch to YEC. That appears to be one. One is not impressive. Any more, or is that all? Way off-topic subthreads should best be let die, but here I go with a reply (poetic even). Re: Dr Ron Neller - creation.com
quote: I'm pretty dubious about a B.A. in fluvial geomorphology (do B.A. degrees get specialized, much less that specialized?). Anyway, I'll buy into the Ph.D. But I do note, that he is in a rather "shallow" specialty. Looking at surface processes is rather removed from considering the "deeper" matters. Moose
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CRR Member (Idle past 2242 days) Posts: 579 From: Australia Joined: |
"Dredge confesses that his understanding of the definition of speciation was flawed."
Don't worry, Dredge, Even Mayr's Biological Species Concept has its problems as the following Wikipedia article shows.
Attempts at definition Species - Wikipedia Biologists and taxonomists have made many attempts to define species, beginning from morphology and moving towards genetics. Early taxonomists such as Linnaeus had no option but to describe what they saw: this was later formalised as the typological or morphological species concept. Mayr emphasised reproductive isolation, but this, like other species concepts, is hard or even impossible to test.[60][61] Later biologists have tried to refine Mayr's definition with the recognition and cohesion concepts, among others.[62] Many of the concepts are quite similar or overlap, so they are not easy to count: the biologist R. L. Mayden recorded about 24 concepts,[63] and the philosopher of science John Wilkins counted 26.[60] Like Linnaeus, Darwin was using a morphological species concept rather than Mayr's Biological Species Concept. Darwin wrote in On the Origin of Species: No one definition has satisfied all naturalists; yet every naturalist knows vaguely what he means when he speaks of a species. Generally the term includes the unknown element of a distinct act of creation. Species - Wikipedia Not only can hybrids form between recognised species, they can form cross genera, although as far as I know, only genera within the one family. This actually is consistent with the idea that the kinds from the Ark have subdivided into sub-groups that we have later classified as different genera and species.
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Pressie Member Posts: 2103 From: Pretoria, SA Joined: |
Hey, JohnF, that guy mentioned by CRR is a Geographer, not a Geologist. He was trained as a Geographer and alledgedly did his PhD in Geography. Geomorphology. Not Geology.
Anyway, from those sources provided by CRR it seems that he did Geography, then joined some cult, then dropped his job and started working for CMI. Not very impressive. He was not convinced by the evidence, but by his cult. Edited by Pressie, : No reason given. Edited by Pressie, : No reason given. Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.
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Pressie Member Posts: 2103 From: Pretoria, SA Joined: |
This one is just as funny.
CRR writes: You do know that the species problem is a big problem for creationists, don't you? No fixed boundaries between "kinds" and all that...
Like Linnaeus, Darwin was using a morphological species concept rather than Mayr's Biological Species Concept. Darwin wrote in On the Origin of Species: No one definition has satisfied all naturalists; yet every naturalist knows vaguely what he means when he speaks of a species. Generally the term includes the unknown element of a distinct act of creation. Species - Wikipedia Not only can hybrids form between recognised species, they can form cross genera, although as far as I know, only genera within the one family. This actually is consistent with the idea that the kinds from the Ark have subdivided into sub-groups that we have later classified as different genera and species.
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Percy Member Posts: 22391 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
Dredge writes: Since, as you say, the antibiotic doesn't change the way bacteria populations mutate, how is it possible to determine if particular post-antibiotic mutations are due to the antibiotic or due to "natural" mutations (that may have occurred without the antibiotic)? Few reproductive events produce perfect copying of the genetic material, hence copying almost always produces mutations, and they are random with respect to adaptation. Mutations are always occurring in bacterial populations, including mutations that would protect against an antibiotic. When an antibiotic is added then bacteria with a protective mutation have an advantage. Mutations continue to occur after the antibiotic is added, but I'm not aware of any evidence for whether they they are different in character from before the antibiotic was added. Mutations generally are random copying errors and can occur anywhere and be of any of a number of different types. Again, mutations are random with regard to adaptation. Likely the frequency and severity of mutations increases in populations under stress. --Percy
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Taq Member Posts: 9972 Joined: Member Rating: 5.5
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Dredge writes: Nothing in applied biology depends on your useless atheist theology First, evolution is not an atheist theology. "Atheist theology" is an oxymoron to begin with. Second, evolution is used in applied biology, such as in the application of the theory to predict protein function. "We present a statistical graphical model to infer specific molecular function for unannotated protein sequences using homology. Based on phylogenomic principles, SIFTER (Statistical Inference of Function Through Evolutionary Relationships) accurately predicts molecular function for members of a protein family given a reconciled phylogenyand available function annotations, even when the data are sparse or noisy." https://www.cs.princeton.edu/~bee/pubs/sifter-plos.pdf Science is defined by observation and experiments; so go away, silly atheist space cadet. Evolution is evidenced by multiple observations, such as the observed nested hierarchy.
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