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Davidjay  Suspended Member (Idle past 2357 days) Posts: 1026 From: B.C Canada Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Debunking the Evolutionary God of 'Selection' | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
bluegenes Member (Idle past 2505 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined:
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Davidjay writes: bluegenes writes: Davidjay writes: Evolutionists admit their so called mutations all come about at random, but they seem to have deified their natural selction of this so called beneficial mutations with a non random deity called "SELECTION'.So lets logically and systematically debunk this deity of theirs.... Well? We're waiting. How many posts are you going to make before you start "logically and systematically" debunking selection? Selection is your god, not mine. Please defend your faith and state something about your beloved nonrandom selector who selects living mutations that somehow someway are already viable and ALIVE.Ahhh you dont say your god brings them to life, you dsay your god keeps them alive by not killing them into extinction with HER environmental conditions. OK, we are making progress, you say evolution is a SUSTAINER and PROVIDER of magic mutations that are alive and viable, and 'She' or MOTHER NATURE or a divine environment keeps them alive by her conditions, and selects and sustains these exploding mutational new life forms. Sort of like a radiation scientist picking out new mutated life forms that are radioactive that aren;t effected by a radioactive environment.... Im not buying it, or ready to honor your god of SELECTION and her SUSTAINING ABILITIES of what is already alive. Now we are making progress.... as logically speaking evolutionists can not say selection gives anything LIFE, it only supposedly sustains or selects life forms, or sustains life forms under her wings..... Ahah, I knew I or we would further this debate and come to the basic premise of evolutionary theory or lies. Well? We're waiting. How many posts are you going to make before you start "logically and systematically" debunking selection?
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Taq Member Posts: 10084 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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Davidjay writes: Selection is your god, not mine. Please defend your faith and state something about your beloved nonrandom selector who selects living mutations that somehow someway are already viable and ALIVE. First, we need to see if you understand the basics. 1. Do you agree that biological reproduction occurs? 2. Do you agree that offspring inherit DNA from their parents? 3. Do you agree that offspring are born with changes in their genome? 4. Do you agree that there is not an infinite amount of food for every individual and every species? 5. Do you agree that some individuals will have more offspring than others? Edited by Taq, : No reason given.
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Taq Member Posts: 10084 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Davidjay writes: Chir, when the probability of a benefical mutation ever taking hold is ZERO in one generation, Show me a single piece of evidence that a beneficial mutation has zero chance of being passed on to the next generation.
Recombination and variability within a kind is a probability What you keep forgetting is that variability is due to mutations. Alleles are different because their DNA sequence is different. Mutations are differences in DNA sequence.
But no new kinds or species of mankind or animal kind has developed from so called beneficial mutations or even one beneficial mutation. Then please explain how chimps and humans are the same kind.
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
The probability of a tossed coin coming up heads is 0.5 The coin cannot toss itself. If tossed, the probability becomes a mathematical actuality, due to the fact that a force caused the momentum.The chance of a tossed coin coming up heads is 0.5 The difference being what? Chance implies that the force itself came about by chance. Probability is always measurable to a concrete degree, while chance is merely unproven theory. In summation, chance in and of itself has no power to do anything. It is simply a term...every bit as useless as godidit. Believers ascribe power to God. The same cannot even be hypothesized in regards to chance---in and of itself.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Chance implies that the force itself came about by chance. Really? So when someone says that the chance that a tossed coin will land heads, you assume that some random force is going to flip the coin. How is that not idiotic? If you want to distinguish between statements of chance and probability, I sincerely hope you will do better than that. The fact of the matter is that chance is just an informal term for probability. If you have some point, can you make it without insisting on writing a dictionary? Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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Tangle Member Posts: 9512 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Phat writes: The coin cannot toss itself. If tossed, the probability becomes a mathematical actuality, due to the fact that a force caused the momentum.Chance implies that the force itself came about by chance. Probability is always measurable to a concrete degree, while chance is merely unproven theory. This is a bit silly Phat. Chance and probability have the same meaning in normal use.
In summation, chance in and of itself has no power to do anything. It is simply a term...every bit as useless as godidit. Believers ascribe power to God. The same cannot even be hypothesized in regards to chance---in and of itself. No one ascribes any sort of external power to chance - it's just a description of how some things come about. A coin landing heads for example is chance. 50:50 in this case. If you're trying to go along with the usual nonsense of evolution being simply chance, you're as wrong as they are. Chance plays a role but selection decides it. How come we have to do this over and over and over?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Pressie Member Posts: 2103 From: Pretoria, SA Joined: |
Phat writes: He-he-he. I play some game with my physics friends where some "coin" made by magnetic material is tossed by magnets when the magnetic fields are turned on. It's quite challenging to try and figure figure out where exactly the "coin" is supposed to land before the time. Yet, it lands somewhere. The coin cannot toss itself. If tossed, the probability becomes a mathematical actuality, due to the fact that a force caused the momentum. Edited by Pressie, : No reason given. Edited by Pressie, : No reason given. Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.
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frako Member (Idle past 333 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
Just because you lack the mental capacity to understand such a simple concept as evolution does not mean you won the debate.
Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.
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Taq Member Posts: 10084 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1
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Phat writes: Probability is always measurable to a concrete degree, while chance is merely unproven theory. We can prove (beyond a reasonable doubt) that mutations are random with respect to fitness. This was done back in the 1940's and 1950's by people such as the Lederberg's, Luria, and Delbruck, the latter two of which won a Nobel prize in part because of their work on mutations. What they found is that mutations conferring antibiotic or bacteriophage resistance occurred when there was no antibiotic or bacteriophage around. Those mutations were just clicking away in the background without any meaningful connection to what the organism may need or not need in a given environment. For the purposes of the theory of evolution, this is the only context we need in order to model evolution. Mutations are said to be random because there is no meaningful connection between the mutations that occur and the mutations that the organism needs. In another context, the outcome of a throw of dice is not influenced by which numbers the thrower needs. When you play craps, the odds of rolling a 7 are not influenced by where the chips are on the table. The roll of the dice is random with respect to the bets in the same way that mutations are random with respect to the needs of the organism.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
This might explain a little of your gambling problem. I think you do not truly understand probability and chance.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Davidjay  Suspended Member (Idle past 2357 days) Posts: 1026 From: B.C Canada Joined: |
Variability is an excuse by evolutionists to try and give evolution credibility.
Variability as in mankind, is limited to the superficial, as with leg length etc etc etc etc etc... and more etc. Its variety but we do NOT get a new species or apelike creature from our combinations via mating STUDY GENETICS evolutionists and stop this insanity of yours !!!. The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK. .
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Davidjay writes:
What sets the limit? What barrier is there to prevent variation from going any farther?
Variability as in mankind, is limited to the superficial, as with leg length etc etc etc etc etc... and more etc.
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Davidjay  Suspended Member (Idle past 2357 days) Posts: 1026 From: B.C Canada Joined: |
Stop supporting racism with your evolutionary doctrine that we are branching out to new species, or superior species, or more viable species, whatever your insane terminolgies allow you to say.
No, variety of humans is not evolution. I am taller than my wife, and are children are a combination of those lengths, and recessive and dominant genes persist depending on the recombination. Have you people never ever studied how the DNA splits, and the recombinations occur.... just because you have a religion of evolution, dont negate all of true science because of your wish for NO CREATOR and NO DESIGN.. The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK. .
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Davidjay  Suspended Member (Idle past 2357 days) Posts: 1026 From: B.C Canada Joined: |
Again evolutionists insisting that others and the sane and the logical ones, dont understand their insanity and lack of science and math, etc.
Theo.. the probability of ZERO is ZERO. No matter how many times you shake your hands and throw the dice, when there is nothing on the dice, you never get a probability. Evolution is totally a religion of luck and chance and is not scientific. Even there luck and chance is ZERO. There is no probability of a BENEFICIAL MUTATION. Explosions in our gonads do not bring about beneficial changes to our children... STUDY MEDICINE, study NUCLEAR RADIATION, etc.. STUDY GENETICS Edited by Davidjay, : No reason given.. The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK. .
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Davidjay writes:
there's always something on the dice.
No matter how many times you shake your hands and throw the dice, when there is nothing on the dice, you never get a probability.
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