Atheism Cannot Rationally Explain Morals.

That was a strange jumble of words. It conveys little except that you are angry at science, as usual.Have you given up on the actual topic?Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

Yes, they could engage in an exhaustive dialogue, but most likely it will eventually reach a stalemate where it's simply one implacable opinion verses another implacable opinion. It would be like one man arguing that a Porsche is a better-looking car than a Ferrari verses another man who argues vice-versa - neither point of view can be proven correct.

Well, let's simplify things by cutting religion out of the discussion - there are plenty of non-religious folks who oppose same-sex marriage. Your opinion on the matter is not more valid than theirs and there is no objecitve way of deciding which opinion is correct.(The law of the land is irrelevant, since whoever is in power gets to impose their version of morality on everyone else; or laws are arrived by concensus, which is alsoirrelevant, because consensus doesn't prove that a law is morally correct.)

And do you maintain that this would go differently if there was a God who created humankind by fiat?

If atheists are correct and there is no God or gods, then religious morality is man-made - therefore they are as just as valid as any other expression of human morality.

The conclusion doesn't seem to follow. One man-made thing can in fact be better than another: a house, a sandwich, a medical diagnosis ...The doctrine of the flat earth is man-made (and usually religiously inspired) but we don't say that therefore it is just as valid as any other man-made opinion as to what shape the earth is.

So we see from your posts that you see avoiding punishment as a valid basis for what you call "morality" and pretty much nothing else. Is there a point ? Or are you just arguing for nihilism ?

That's pretty much true...as long as you mind your own business. But if you were to decide to harass a same-sex couple (or if your business discriminates against a same-sex couple in a jurisdiction that protects sexual orientation in its anti-discrimination laws), you'll find that the law becomes pretty relevant real quick.

What nonsense. If you want to make the claim that the geneticists are wrong, you're going to have to do some genome sequencing of your own and get yourself published.But of course, you haven't answered the substantive point. Why are we related to other species at all?

Believe me, I'd love to. There are plenty of murderers, thieves and rapists too. As a society we don't allow them to continue with their activities because we think there is a moral difference between those that harm others and those that don't. The laws of modern, democratic, secular societies are based on the prevention of harm to its citizens. We decided what behaviours we prohibit based on whether those activities interfere with the well-being of others. With that as the standard we don't need to look to the supernatural.There is no harm caused by two people loving each other so there is no need for laws that would harm them.

We do not make moral judgements purely by opinion. They are primarily based on the concepts of harm and well-being. We do not allow the murderer to murder. He harms society, regardless of his opinions on the matter.

If humans are incapable of determining for themselves what is and isn't moral, then how can they claim that what God commands is moral?

I have yet to see a reference comparing the whole banana genome to the human genome, so that number seems to be pulled out of thin air.I still don't understand how you take a percentage and determine how physically similar or dissimilar two species should be. Perhaps you could enlighten us? Why? Chimps share more DNA with humans than the do with other apes. There are more differences between the chimp and gorilla genome than there is between the chimp and human genome. Chimps are more closely related to humans than they are to other apes.

Do you accept that our minds are capable of both producing and experiencing meaning - regardless of how they came about?

Okay, I admit I'm beginning to lose track of where this is going. How much DNA should we share with a banana before we can find meaning in our lives.