Why did the Christian messiah fail to fulfill the messianic prophecies?

Of course not. This is a prophecy of the life that is just now being created, a portrait of what the man will be. The Magi knew he was to be a king, and he was mocked as a king, His followers knew him to be a king. His life on earth isn't finished, he's coming back to reign. Not that I see. If you can why not suggest them? I wasn't talking about the Magi, they had their own sources of knowledge. But again there seems to be good reason to think they were Jewish anyway, who would have known the prophecies of the OT.The crescent moon occurs always on Rosh Hashana, which I believe I said myself, but it doesn't occur in the same position. But you are leaving out the other events that make this New Year unusual: the Jupiter-Regulus event.It would have been quite dramatic enough that the blood moon rose that night after all the other phenomena that attended the crucifixion.

Etc etc etc. And so of course is the group of stars called Virgo, and on and on about how it's all an ancient arbitrary system of symbols. Fine.But there is still this very striking fact that you haven't commented on that I've repeated many times: the exact identity of the woman in Revelation 12 with the sign of Virgo in September of 3 BC: The constellation of Virgo rising in the sky on September 23 of 3 BC, as seen on the astronomy program in the video, rises engulfed with the sun and with the new moon at its feet. The description couldn't be more exact. It's just a random bunch of stars, yes, but since they do now make up this recognizable constellation, its exact correspondence with the image in Revelation can't just be a coincidence, it has to be what John saw. I don't see how you can rationalize that one away. It has to make you ask why scripture is referring to this random bunch of stars in terms that accept its status as a constellation depicting a woman called Virgo which is rising with the sun, with the new moon of Rosh Hashana at its "feet." It's in "heaven" and associated with twelve stars. This is no mere coincidence, NN.In the video he shows this event at 41:10 --Virgo rises clothed with the sun with the new moon at her feet but the sun is too bright to really make out the image, so I also mention that at 1:00:19 you can see the blood moon rising at the "feet" of Virgo on the day of the crucifixion, which is a clearer image than the first one.
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I'm not disputing that point. What I am saying is that the Lions, Tigers and Bears that you think are prophetic are man's nonsense. Yes, but you are a numerologist, while Faith believes in witches and astrology. I don't think you've made a very significant recommendation. I make a regular practice of doing exactly that. Do you?

By now, you ought to know that I could not be less impressed. Some stars showed up, fine. (Actually if they were engulfed with the sun, they were not even visible, so showed up is not really the word. But so what? You only find those stars significant because somebody thought they looked like a virgin to support some story utterly unrelated to the Bible.

I think them significant because in their accepted form as a constellation called Virgo they exactly fit the description of the woman in Revelation 12. As I said the question is why SCRIPTURE makes this correspondence, not I, and not Larson and nobody else.

That is not significantly different from what I said. The problem is that the association of the stars with a virgin or a woman is complete horse crap. It is based on a mythology that in any other context you would recognize as pagan.Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

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Of course not. This is a prophecy of the life that is just now being created, a portrait of what the man will be.

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Which only shows the flexibility of symbolism. The timing is quite unimportant.

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The Magi knew he was to be a king, and he was mocked as a king, His followers knew him to be a king. His life on earth isn't finished, he's coming back to reign.

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So if he is going to be overthrown as King, it is still in the future. And you don't even believe that will happen. What a great "prediction".

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Not that I see. If you can why not suggest them?

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You say that the "blood moon" being in Virgo is significant for some reason but you could easily link Leo or Aries or Pisces to Jesus.

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I wasn't talking about the Magi, they had their own sources of knowledge. But again there seems to be good reason to think they were Jewish anyway, who would have known the prophecies of the OT.

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As I have already pointed out the whole point of the astrology is that the Magi supposedly believed it. If they didn't the story falls apart. And as others have pointed out the story says that they needed to consult with Jewish scholars to find out about Bethlehem. And no, there is no good reason to think that they were at all Jewish, if they existed.

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The crescent moon occurs always on Rosh Hashana, which I believe I said myself, but it doesn't occur in the same position.

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It will very often be in Virgo for the reason I gave - the moon must be in line with the Sun at new moon.

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But you are leaving out the other events that make this New Year unusual: the Jupiter-Regulus event

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That is a bit more unusual but it was common enough for a meaning to get into ancient astrological texts. And, of course, we have reasons to doubt that it occurred at the right time to have anything to do with Jesus' birth.

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It would have been quite dramatic enough that the blood moon rose that night after all the other phenomena that attended the crucifixion.

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Except that it didn't really rise over Jerusalem. By my reading there is at most a small chance that the very end of the Lunar Eclipse would have been visible on the horizon at the time of rising. But likely not. How much more impressive it would have been if the totality occurred over Jerusalem that night - or the preceding night.
If that was the right night at all - and there is no way of knowing that.

Actually no Faith. Jesus followers hoped he would be a king but he was never a king. And what might happen in the future is so far simply failed prophecy. Again Faith, lunar eclipses are not unusual and in fact happen at least twice a year and could be as often as five times a year.The current Blood Moon Christian nonsense is mostly from the nutjobs John Hagee and Mark Blitz.

1. I want to point out that Larson who made the Star video found all the astrological signs in the process of looking for the Star. The search itself kept turning up the signs and symbols. When he started discovering them it worried him because as a Christian he knows we are not to follow astrology. He took a time out to study how the Bible uses the concepts and signs and concluded that what he was being led to by the astronomy program was not only valid in scripture but encouraged.2. I have to keep repeating that the amazing fit between the woman of Revelation 12 and the picture of the constellation Virgo on Rosh Hashana of 3BC is incontrovertible evidence that scripture acknowledges the traditional meanings of the constellations, which means they must be considered to be the source of "signs" we are to pay attention to in understanding prophecy.That one image is open and shut evidence that scripture uses such signs, but all the other correlations Larson turned up about that date as the conception of Christ and also the crucifixion, are really not subject to other interpretations.3. Constellations are mentioned in the book of Job: The Bear, Orion, the Pleiades, and "the constellations of the south," in chapters 9 and 38, as creations of God. Constellations you understand, not stars and galaxies but those artificial man-defined star groups arranged to depict some kind of figure to which a meaning is given. "the constellations in their seasons?"4. From all this it appears that there is SOME place in God's plan for meaning to be found in the constellations of the stars. Not something to worship, not a guide for our lives, but some kind of meaning related to HIS purposes. "Signs in the heavens" is a familiar biblical phrase. Well, what sort of "signs" are we to have in mind? Psalm 19 describes the heavens as speaking or communicating. Romans 10:17 refers to this psalm to say the Jews knew from the heavenly signs when Messiah was to come.This is all discussed on the Star website.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Agreement, the holy days in the Lords calendar are lunar.You have tyo know and understand the Moons cycle as set in Genesis as much as the Earths cycle around the Sun (Tabernacle of the Son)But 'Faith' dont mix up the cruicifixion in the Spring with the birth of Jesus, two different events. And Rosh Hannah in the fall which is a harvest festival, with specific number of days between.Remember two harvests, one for those that have chosen the Messiah or Messiah to come, and one harvest in the End for those who have not.(See Revelation)And do note that Judiasm never saved anyone, only choosing the Messiah to come saved those in the past before the arrival of the Messiah (Jesus)

To this, I am definitely in agreement.The stars were for signs and seasons. They are not just pretty lights in the sky, and they were not placed there at random, as the randomites suggest. And most importantly, the Earth is not just a random planet, but a special planet with special measurements and distances, revolutions, rotations and DESIGN as well as being the planet, that the Lord choose to be born in, live on and die on, to save the sins of the whole Universe.All things obey His commandmentsRead`also Enoch....

Astrology or daily horoscopes etc... is absolutely bogus and false science, whereas knowing the stars, and the galactic plane, and Milky Way, and star formations and their movements is not anti-sciptural. The Lord wants us to know all of science , because all of His science points to HIM.People need to know the difference, Christians need not be afraid of science. The more you know, the more you gain faith in the Lords Creation, Design and TIME.Selah (THINK about it)AstronomyandtheStarsStars are signsSeeing I have going out on Thursday nights praying under the stars, there is much that seems to be coming to me,
concerning the design He has told us in His firmament. because ..... The heavens declare the glory of God and the stars his
handiwork. (Psalms 19)And the way they are, is by DESIGN and for a purpose and for a SIGN and signs unto us. It is not by evolutionary chance
as perverted ungodly false science will say to you, but by design. For if you know this basic principle, THEN you have a
chance of knowing more. Yet unfortunately most people and even the Lord's people have been persuaded that everything in
life is by chance and at random rather than by design and for a purpose, the LORD'S PURPOSE.The church people probably above all deeming the constellations pure fiction and myth rather than their formations
showing the Messianic story. nevertheless specifically in the BOOK OF BEGINNINGS called Genesis, (A word for word,
literal exact account of the true science and history of the Earth and the Universe) states that the stars were put there as a
sign for us. (Genesis 1)Our forefathers knew this and studied the sky and its truths and symbolism. And hence, we also should know what the
star constellations reveal, for it as always shows that the Lord will conquer Satan, and gives the exact means and symbolism
by which He will conclude the GREATEST STORY EVER TOLD.SEE Messianicstoryinthestars.htmlEverything was created for the glory of God and in honor to the King of Kings...JESUS. For there is no other Savior in the
Universe, only JESUS. And our Earth is special, as we are at the center of His Creation.SEE Theearthisthecenter.htmlFrom the beginning, the Lord placed the stars in their patterns and sizes and placements as constellations to tell HIS-story.
The light reaching us was already present and hitting earth because it was HERE that it was to be a sign to us. Therefore
forget the insanity of the million light years away denial. The sign of the stars was present from the beginning. For
remember, the stars did not get created first but light was. later the Lord placed the light into stars. When Adam was created
on the sixth day, when he opened his eyes, Adam saw the star lights in their constellations.The star patterns were the same as they are now. The only difference is that the Lord shifted the axis’s of the Earth,
making seasons after the first transgression, so that the axis now points towards Polaris. There was no slow recession, but
an instantaneous realignment of the Earth. Therefore reject the mathematically false 25,000 or so recession of the stars
theory, because again, the Earth's poles changed soon after creation so that we got seasons, hot and cold and work and pain
in labor for our sins, so that there has not been a cycle of 25,000 years as yet.Return to the biblical 6,000 year basis and creation in 4004 B.C. rather than getting deluded by the Mayan start time for a
new recycling.Similarly understand that a cluster of stars like Pleiades is mathematically impossible, because stars should be randomly
inter-dispersed among the heavens, rather than in such a close cluster. (SEE Pleiades thread).The different distances mean nothing it is the inclination pathway that means everything. Light speed is not a determinant,
because via phi expansions, there are greater speeds making time at light speed a mute measurement of the past. And it is
for this reason that the Giza shaft ways are pointed exactly towards the stars. For again, when you understand that the
earth is absolutely special and unique, then you will start to sort out why the stars are important. False science says we are
merely one of the planets of one Sun, of one Solar System among billions, and yet there is only ONE SON, and He was
born HERE and died HERE for all the Universe. We are the central focus of the Universe, because HE IS and WAS, and
will be setting His Universe Headquarters, right HERE on EARTH . . New JerusalemTherefore what we see, is all important and was put there as a SIGN to us, as the HEAVENS declare the glory of God, via
their stories. The ancients knew this, and yet we have to relearn this, and marvel in this TRUTH..
Psalm 19
1The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his
handywork.2Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.3There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.4Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of
the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,5Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a
strong man to run a race.6His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends
of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.

The timing is VERY important. This triple passing of Regulus by Jupiter occurred in Leo just before the conception of Christ. I "don't believe" WHAT? What I believe is that he WAS overthrown AS KING. He's always King whether recognized or not. Riding into Jerusalem on the donkey, for instance, is something Kings did to announce their reign. Well Aries IS linked to Jesus, being the symbol of the Lamb of God that marks the month in which He was sacrificed as the Passover Lamb. But the reason the blood moon in Virgo is significant is that it echoes the image at Rosh Hashana in 3 BC, when the moon was the new moon at her feet, while at the crucifixion it's a full blood moon, also at her feet. I personally find it a very touching rounding-out image of his life, his birth and death as son of Israel his mother. The moon at the feet seems to be a symbol of the offpsring of the figure Virgo.The moon being frequently in Virgo at Rosh Hashana doesn't always put it at the feet of the constellation, and again, all the other events have to be figured in to appreciate the significance of that date as the Annunciation or conception of Christ. No one event, particularly a common event, would be sufficient. Of course they believed it. Either they weren't Jewish and needed that information since the star hadn't been that specific; or they were Jewish and unfamiliar with Judea and needed to be pointed toward Bethlehem. Many good reasons they might have been Jewish have been discussed.If the blood moon wasn't visible the night of the crucifixion then Peter was wrong to say to the crowd assembled at Pentecost that they had all witnessed the signs. That would mean looking for a different date for the crucifixion.

It's impossible to explain then, how it is that the Woman of Revelation 12 is the exact spittin image of this mythological sign.And I refer you to Message 624 for other references to constellations in scripture.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

AstronomyStarsandSunSignsAstronomy and the StarsThe problem with the stars, is that the dam perverse dark side has taken over their meaning with it's perverse insane delusional
horoscopes and daily forecasts, so that earthlings start to think they have no choice, and that the heavens dictate what will
happen to them and what their choices will be. Absolutely untrue and a diabolical lie ... IMO. The primary PRINCIPLE of the
Lord is CHOICE!!!! We all have to choose, and no one or no race, or no nationality or group is sacrosanct that does not have to
choose the Lord and His WAY.Psychics and astrologers of the dark side predict forecasts or prophesy via slick slimy speech and it’s done only for
money. It is not of the Lord or for you; do not believe them, as we have seen some of our friends do. It is not from the Lord.
Having said that though, let me suggest to you, that the positioning of the stars at birth, does dictate our personal make-up or
the variety of personalities the Lord has created to have a balanced community of individuals. You can say, He does this
through natural selection in the genes, but I would say, He does this through the natural sweet influences of the stars when we
are born.