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Author Topic:   Will Trump fail to build "The Wall" if all 7 border Republican Reps oppose funding?
LamarkNewAge
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Posts: 1618
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 1 of 53 (807109)
04-30-2017 10:18 PM


Trump started his presidency with a nation strongly opposed to his immigration policy (upwards of 80% support a pathway to citizenship as opposed to deportation while exit polls showed that 54% of American voters opposed The Wall) but it remains to be seen if the Senate and House Republicans stick with their voting constituents which will in effect cause the respective members to oppose President Trump.

From the conservative Wall Street Journal, April 22-23, 2017, Border Lawmakers Balk Over Wall Request, by Laura Meckler and Kristina Peterson, with Peter Nicholas contribution to article.

quote:

WASHINGTON--Not a single member of Congress who represents the territory on the southwest border said they support President Donald Trump's request for $1.4 billion to begin construction of his promised wall...
....
In the Senate, none of the four Republican's representing border states have expressed support for the project as conceived by Mr. Trump.


The list of opponents includes Reps Steven Pearce (New Mexico ), Will Heard (Texas), and Martha McSally (Arizona ).

Trump lost some once safe districts in non border parts of Texas like the Pete Sessions (Dallas ) and John Culberson (Houston) seats.

Democratic opposition is unanimous in both houses of Congress.

Trump might shift his focus against trade as opposed to immigration. He has went all out this past week against South Korea and it wasn't only his desire to trash their recent and historic trade deal.

(he deployed the Thaad missile system against the wishes of South Korea ( in South Korea! ) and then added that THEY should pay for it, and that was alongside his threats to start a war between not only the United States and North Korea but one that would make South Korea an aggressor since we have thousands of our troops parked along the border lines on the South Korean side. God help the South Koreans if their May 9 election doesn't have the effect of bringing in a new President that doesn't have the backbone to kick out/remove our crazy and ever increasingly bellicose presence from their country )

Trump seems ready to rip up NAFTA

We recently called Canada a "bad neighbor" because they sell us low cost lumber.

I suppose that there will be anger at China for helping to make solar panels for so cheap that now most of the price of solar panel purchases could now be installation costs (nevermind that this means that most consumer dollars might now go to funding U. S. jobs when a panel is purchased and nevermind that the 30% lower panel prices means that thousands of consumer dollars can then be spent on other American provided services )

But what about this anti-immigration election card and specifically what do you think about the actual policy reality with regards to how much of the xenophobic idea actually ends up being translated into actual (llegislated and signed ) law?


Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Phat, posted 04-30-2017 11:30 PM LamarkNewAge has responded
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AdminPhat
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Posts: 1949
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-03-2004


Message 2 of 53 (807111)
04-30-2017 11:26 PM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum

  
Phat
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Posts: 13680
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 3 of 53 (807112)
04-30-2017 11:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by LamarkNewAge
04-30-2017 10:18 PM


Trumpapalooza
In regards to the wall, I can say that ladders and tunnels are cheaper and will thwart the intended purpose to a degree...although the wall---if it ever gets built----will slow border crossings.

In regards to NAFTA, Trump now appears willing to work with it.

One thing about Trump----he speaks a lot of doubletalk B.S. on purpose. People are slowing figuring out that most of what he says is a diversion from what he actually intends to do. The remaining question in my mind is how much he will actually get done in the next four years and whether it will improve the American way of life or make it harder.....I still believe trump is out of touch with the working class.

He definitely has an odd agenda. Trump Invites Controversial Philippines Leader To White House

He reaches out to the authoritarian oddballs of the world.

Edited by Phat, : added link


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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LamarkNewAge
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Posts: 1618
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 4 of 53 (807117)
05-01-2017 12:02 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Phat
04-30-2017 11:30 PM


Re: Trumpapalooza
The Philippine leader is the most interesting thing I have seen in a while due to his insistence toward totally contrary views with regards to our foreign policy elite including the entire U. S. news media.

He says China is a friend and the United States is the enemy.

Not what we have been told.

Not what we have been told.

The candidate Trump seems to be the same man who as President would want to meet the Philipino leader.

But is President Trump the same thing as candidate Trump?


This message is a reply to:
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Phat
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Posts: 13680
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 5 of 53 (807120)
05-01-2017 12:20 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by LamarkNewAge
05-01-2017 12:02 AM


Re: Trumpapalooza
But is President Trump the same thing as candidate Trump?
To quote a Clint Eastwood line, Trump is a legend in his own mind. He likely already thinks his place in History is more prominent than it so far actually is.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

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marc9000
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From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


(1)
Message 6 of 53 (807154)
05-01-2017 7:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by LamarkNewAge
04-30-2017 10:18 PM


Trump started his presidency with a nation strongly opposed to his immigration policy (upwards of 80% support a pathway to citizenship as opposed to deportation while exit polls showed that 54% of American voters opposed The Wall)

I don't know where you get this stuff from, if it were anywhere near true, Trump wouldn't have gotten anywhere near the presidency.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Faith
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From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 7 of 53 (807159)
05-01-2017 8:21 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by marc9000
05-01-2017 7:42 AM


Two separate political worlds
American politics these days, and perhaps European as well, seems to be divided into two entirely separated spheres that have little or no communication between them. What I see written here belongs to some other dimension entirely than the one I live in. I can certainly see the effect of this dimension in the disruptive work of the enemies of Trump as they labor to interfere with everything he tries to do, unfortunately succeeding in many cases, but in my dimension his popularity remains high and his successes are overall adding up.

Concerning the Wall, since for some strange reason this is opposed by a lot of Democrats and Republicans both, there has been a proposal to fund it by Trump supporters themselves. Heard this on a conservative radio talk show recently.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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PaulK
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Posts: 15913
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 8 of 53 (807161)
05-01-2017 8:43 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Faith
05-01-2017 8:21 AM


Re: Two separate political worlds
I would suggest that the main problem is that there is little contact between your beliefs and reality.

For instance people may have voted for Trump for other reasons than the idea that he was going to build a hugely expensive wall, and somehow get Mexico to pay for it. To say that Trump voters agreed with all his policies is obviously wrong, they merely need to have preferred Trump to Clinton - and I remind you that he still got fewer votes than Clinton, even so.

In reality now that funding must be provided by the American tax-payers who can blame Republican Congressmen for being reluctant to foot the bill ? And given the disruption the wall would cause along the border it is understandable that those who represent the people who will be affected would have further objections.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Faith, posted 05-01-2017 8:21 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Faith, posted 05-01-2017 8:46 AM PaulK has responded

  
Faith
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Posts: 34657
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 9 of 53 (807162)
05-01-2017 8:46 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by PaulK
05-01-2017 8:43 AM


Re: Two separate political worlds
Well, Paul, since you seem to be unaware of it, I must inform you that your post is just another from the Other Dimension than the one I hear about every day from conservative sources.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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jar
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Posts: 32150
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 10 of 53 (807164)
05-01-2017 8:49 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Faith
05-01-2017 8:21 AM


Re: Two separate political worlds
The wall is about as stupid an idea as imaginable. Almost no one who lives along the border agrees with the idea of "The Wall of Stupidity".

Instead of "The Wall of Stupidity" let's use the money to create more border crossing points with more lanes and faster throughput.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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PaulK
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Posts: 15913
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


(1)
Message 11 of 53 (807165)
05-01-2017 8:52 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Faith
05-01-2017 8:46 AM


Re: Two separate political worlds
And in saying that you just confirm my point. It is not as if I said anything that is not obviously true. If reality is "another dimension" you have a problem.

Here's something to think about. A good stretch of the border between the U.S. And Mexico runs down the middle of the Rio Grande. Where would the wall be built ?


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jar
Member
Posts: 32150
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 12 of 53 (807169)
05-01-2017 9:07 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by PaulK
05-01-2017 8:52 AM


The "Wall of Stupidity"
PaulK writes:

Here's something to think about. A good stretch of the border between the U.S. And Mexico runs down the middle of the Rio Grande. Where would the wall be built ?

In one local town the wall would be between the city and it's waterworks department. Mostly between the landowner and the rest of his property. Between the nearest access road and every boat ramp. Between the highway and the restaurant on the river.

Oh, and don't worry about the restaurant. Their boat dock will be full with customers coming across from the South and all the US employees can be replaced from Mexico as well.

The "Wall of Stupidity" will provide lots of jobs so folk can then run down to the QuickStop and send money orders back to their family in Mexico and Guatemala.

Maybe the most efficient foreign aid in US history.

Edited by jar, : fix sub-title


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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ringo
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Posts: 17908
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 13 of 53 (807228)
05-01-2017 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Phat
04-30-2017 11:30 PM


Re: Trumpapalooza
Phat writes:

One thing about Trump----he speaks a lot of doubletalk B.S. on purpose.


I don't think that's true. He has no purpose other than self-aggrandisement.

He has the attention span of a gnat. If you ask him next week, he'll deny that he ever said anything about a wall - and his press secretary will jump through hoops explaining that a wall is not a wall.

My bet is that he'll soon be praising himself for stopping the terrible construction of Obama's terrible wall that was so terrible for America.


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NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 14 of 53 (807238)
05-01-2017 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by marc9000
05-01-2017 7:42 AM


I don't know where you get this stuff from, if it were anywhere near true, Trump wouldn't have gotten anywhere near the presidency.

I don't know where LNA gets most of the stuff he posts, but it is certainly possible that most folks oppose the wall even if they are adamant about getting illegal immigrants out of the country. The wall is going to be an expensive boondoggle of questionable efficiency. Further, in order to complete the wall, it will be necessary for the federal government to take away the land of a folks substantially all of whom are Trump voters.

And of course there is the intense dislike that many folks have for all things Hilary Clinton.

It is a gross mistake, in my opinion, to assume that any particular one of Trump's policies is popular just because a little less than half of the voters picked him to be president.

Further, there are the folks who voted against Trump. If we take the hard line that the wall was what folks voted on, then we would conclude that a little over half of American voters did oppose the wall.

With regard to the popularity of a "pathway to citizenship", you can find information about that yourself. No need to rely on LamarkNewAge. The polls I have seen suggest that the majority of Republicans support a 'pathway to citizenship'

Yet Trump is president.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
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marc9000
Member
Posts: 1098
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 15 of 53 (807241)
05-01-2017 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Faith
05-01-2017 8:21 AM


Re: Two separate political worlds
American politics these days, and perhaps European as well, seems to be divided into two entirely separated spheres that have little or no communication between them.

Agreed - "these days" is the key phrase. U.S. politics has always been divided. 50 years ago, 1967, there was a LOT of political unrest in the U.S. The difference was, most in the Democrat party had at least some morality. For one simple reason, militant atheism wasn't the main motivation of it like it is today. That's what the problem is today, the promotion of atheism, and the use of science to establish it in young people.

What I see written here belongs to some other dimension entirely than the one I live in. I can certainly see the effect of this dimension in the disruptive work of the enemies of Trump as they labor to interfere with everything he tries to do, unfortunately succeeding in many cases, but in my dimension his popularity remains high and his successes are overall adding up.

I'm afraid it's the equivalent of about.....1850 all over again. Who knows how it will turn out. I'm glad I'm not any younger.

Concerning the Wall, since for some strange reason this is opposed by a lot of Democrats and Republicans both,

I think there's a lot of difference between what special interests want concerning the wall, versus what the general public wants. Even some Republican special interests are opposed to it because they want the increase in cheap labor that illegal immigration brings. Democrat special interests don't want it because they see illegal immigrants voting Democrat. The entire illegal drug industry doesn't want it of course, that probably crosses party lines in some respects. The news media doesn't want it because their hatred for Trump far outweighs any desire they have for improvements in U.S. society. There are probably other special interests that think they benefit from illegal immigration in some way, but the above that I mentioned alone are capable of rigging poll questions, and misleading people in other ways about what the general public wants concerning the wall. I think that was the one main issue that got Trump elected. Most Republican voters easily see what illegal immigration can do to poison a society. Even some Democrat voters on government handout programs have enough sense to see that illegal immigration cause more competition for their free stuff. Yes, even some (not all) Democrat voters know that there's a limit to free stuff, that it has to be produced by someone.

there has been a proposal to fund it by Trump supporters themselves. Heard this on a conservative radio talk show recently.

Trump's big campaign promise was that Mexico was going to pay for the wall. I understand how a majority today doesn't want any U.S. funding to go for it.

What do you think of the El Chapo Act?

What I'd like to know is, where is that money right now? Does the U.S. government have it? Does Mexico have it? Is it spent already? If so, what will it be spent on? I'd expect these answers to be on the news, prominently. But with today's news, fat chance.


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