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Author Topic:   How do you define the word Evolution?
Dredge
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 571 of 936 (807308)
05-02-2017 6:20 AM
Reply to: Message 570 by Pressie
05-02-2017 5:00 AM


Re: If Not, What?
The DNA of an earthworm contains 10.465 infos; the DNA of a human being contains 3,356,298,112.2089 infos.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 570 by Pressie, posted 05-02-2017 5:00 AM Pressie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 572 by bluegenes, posted 05-02-2017 6:50 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 573 by Pressie, posted 05-02-2017 8:07 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 574 by Pressie, posted 05-02-2017 8:23 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 580 by Taq, posted 05-02-2017 10:50 AM Dredge has replied

  
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2499 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 572 of 936 (807309)
05-02-2017 6:50 AM
Reply to: Message 571 by Dredge
05-02-2017 6:20 AM


Re: If Not, What?
Dredge writes:
The DNA of an earthworm contains 10.465 infos; the DNA of a human being contains 3,356,298,112.2089 infos.
No. Size isn't everything.
Here's some info for you
quote:
The largest genomes belongs to a very small creature, Amoeba dubia. This protozoan genome has 670 billion units of DNA, or base pairs. The genome of a cousin, Amoeba proteus, has a mere 290 billion base pairs, making it 100 times larger than the human genome.
And size is easily achieved because duplications are common.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 571 by Dredge, posted 05-02-2017 6:20 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 589 by Dredge, posted 05-03-2017 2:03 AM bluegenes has replied

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 573 of 936 (807314)
05-02-2017 8:07 AM
Reply to: Message 571 by Dredge
05-02-2017 6:20 AM


Re: If Not, What?
Dredge writes:
The DNA of an earthworm contains 10.465 infos; the DNA of a human being contains 3,356,298,112.2089 infos.
Ah, size of the genome equates to "genetic information", according to you.
Then, according to your definition a protozoan, called Amoeba dubia, has more than 670,000,000.0000 "infos". Hey, according to you, personally, a unicellular organism has a hundred times more genetic information than you! And, unlike you, those protozoans don't even pretend to have brains!
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 571 by Dredge, posted 05-02-2017 6:20 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 605 by Dredge, posted 05-04-2017 3:15 AM Pressie has replied

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 574 of 936 (807316)
05-02-2017 8:23 AM
Reply to: Message 571 by Dredge
05-02-2017 6:20 AM


Genetic information
So, Dredge.
Now that you know something about genome sizes; are you going to answer the following question?
Pressie writes:
Hey, Dredge, how do you quantify the information stored in the DNA? How do you know whether genetic information increases or decreases without a way of measuring it? Could you provide the units to measure the amount of genetic information?
You don't want to prove yourself to be more brainless that protozoa, do you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 571 by Dredge, posted 05-02-2017 6:20 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 575 of 936 (807324)
05-02-2017 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 567 by KyleConno
05-02-2017 4:08 AM


Evolution: The process of development of organisms.
"Development" is a poor choice of words because it is the word we use for ontogeny, for growing from a zygote to an adult.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 567 by KyleConno, posted 05-02-2017 4:08 AM KyleConno has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 576 of 936 (807325)
05-02-2017 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 563 by CRR
05-02-2017 3:28 AM


Re: Part of the problem?
I think it suits some people to leave it that way then they can say "Behold the Peppered Moth! That is an example of evolution. Hence we have proved that humans evolved from apes which evolved from LUCA."
And since no-one ever does say that, what you think is an insane paranoid delusion that bears no relationship to reality.
And that's why we can have definitions ranging from
@Pressie 377
After all of this, I gathered that the word evolution means change over time.
to
@CRR 87
Evolution is the theory that all the living forms in the world have arisen from a single source which itself arose naturally from an inorganic form.
But one of those definitions is yours, CRR!
If you are genuinely worried that one day someone will conflate the two definitions, you can withdraw yours and use the same definition as everyone else does.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 563 by CRR, posted 05-02-2017 3:28 AM CRR has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 577 of 936 (807326)
05-02-2017 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 561 by Dredge
05-02-2017 2:17 AM


Re: Part of the problem?
According to Wiki, for example, ToE is "the process by which organisms change over time as a result of changes in heritable physical or behavioural traits". This sounds like microevolution to me.
A little of that would be microevolution; a lot of that would be macroevolution.
How can a sane discussion proceed about "evolution" or "the theory of evoltion" if you can't be sure what the hell the other person is referring to?
Sane people are not confused.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 561 by Dredge, posted 05-02-2017 2:17 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 578 of 936 (807327)
05-02-2017 10:01 AM
Reply to: Message 560 by Dredge
05-02-2017 1:55 AM


Re: Where are we now?
Thanks for that CCR.
When a creationist tries to deceive you, thanks are not in order.
Wow, this is such a convoluted subject
CRR's deception is indeed convoluted, but it is not the subject.
- you don't who or what to believe!
I do: the scientists.
When someone mentions "the theory of evolution" or "evolution" you really need to get them to explain exactly what they mean.
And then if they're talking crazy creationist crap you need to ask them to stop.
It seems to me that there are least three theories of evolution!
And you are pathetically, ludicrously wrong.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 560 by Dredge, posted 05-02-2017 1:55 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 604 by Dredge, posted 05-04-2017 3:12 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10045
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 579 of 936 (807330)
05-02-2017 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 561 by Dredge
05-02-2017 2:17 AM


Re: Part of the problem?
Dredge writes:
According to Wiki, for example, ToE is "the process by which organisms change over time as a result of changes in heritable physical or behavioural traits". This sounds like microevolution to me.
All of the genetic differences between humans and chimps was produced by this process. Macroevolution is the accumulation of microevolutionary events. As an analogy, taking a single step is microevolution. Walking to the curb is macroevolution, and it works by repeating the process of taking a single step.
How can a sane discussion proceed about "evolution" or "the theory of evoltion" if you can't be sure what the hell the other person is referring to?
How can a sane discussion proceed when you refuse to listen to what other people are saying?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 561 by Dredge, posted 05-02-2017 2:17 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10045
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 580 of 936 (807331)
05-02-2017 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 571 by Dredge
05-02-2017 6:20 AM


Re: If Not, What?
The DNA of an earthworm contains 10.465 infos; the DNA of a human being contains 3,356,298,112.2089 infos.
How did you arrive at those numbers?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 571 by Dredge, posted 05-02-2017 6:20 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 590 by Dredge, posted 05-03-2017 2:08 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10045
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


(3)
Message 581 of 936 (807334)
05-02-2017 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 563 by CRR
05-02-2017 3:28 AM


Re: Part of the problem?
CRR writes:
Evolution is the theory that all the living forms in the world have arisen from a single source which itself arose naturally from an inorganic form.
As discussed before, the theory doesn't require an universal common ancestor.
"There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being, evolved."--Charles Darwin, "Origin of Species"
From the very start of the theory an universal common ancestor was not required. It just so happens that the evidence points to an universal common ancestor, so that is the conclusion that scientists have adopted.
and they are all correct in some sense and all wrong in some sense. Hence the confusion.
That is true of every single theory in science. As it turns out, human language can only approximate reality, so it will always fall short when describing reality. This is why the semantic arguments, which creationists are all too fond of, tend to fall flat. Instead of trying to understand what reality is like, ID/creationists want to obscure the subject by focusing on definitions for words.
I think it suits some people to leave it that way then they can say "Behold the Peppered Moth! That is an example of evolution. Hence we have proved that humans evolved from apes which evolved from LUCA."
I have yet to see anyone claim that the peppered moth proves that humans evolved from a common ancestor shared with other apes. Perhaps you could cite any of us saying that?
What the peppered moth does do is give a real world example of how the mechanisms of evolution work, namely the mechanism of random mutation and natural selection. The evidence for shared ancestry between humans and other species like chimps is found in things like endogenous retroviruses or transitional fossils.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 563 by CRR, posted 05-02-2017 3:28 AM CRR has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 582 of 936 (807401)
05-03-2017 12:31 AM
Reply to: Message 553 by Taq
05-01-2017 12:32 PM


Re: If Not, What?
Fossils are the facts that verify the theory of evolution
What is the theory of evolution?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 553 by Taq, posted 05-01-2017 12:32 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 584 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-03-2017 12:40 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 597 by Taq, posted 05-03-2017 11:07 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 583 of 936 (807402)
05-03-2017 12:36 AM
Reply to: Message 555 by Taq
05-01-2017 12:36 PM


Re: Dobzhansky
Dredge says: "I am opposed to the theory that all life evolved from a common ancestor because it ... contradicts the Bible."
Taq says: "you call evolution a myth because it contradicts your religious beliefs."
Here you have equated "the theory that all life evolved from a common ancestor" with "evolution". This is interesting, as it seems to at odds with definitions that some other evolutionists offer.
You have demonstrated time and again that you don't even understand how science works.
These are harsh words, difficult to accept. If you were my teacher, what would you give me out of ten for my understanding of science?
evolution has nothing to do with atheism. The majority of Christians worldwide accept evolution
As you pointed out in your post, "evolution" includes that part that says all life evolved from a common ancestor. Please show me the figures that verify your claim that the majority of Christians worldwide accept that all life evolved from a common ancestor.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 555 by Taq, posted 05-01-2017 12:36 PM Taq has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 584 of 936 (807403)
05-03-2017 12:40 AM
Reply to: Message 582 by Dredge
05-03-2017 12:31 AM


Re: If Not, What?
What is the theory of evolution?
The explanation of how evolution works.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 582 by Dredge, posted 05-03-2017 12:31 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 591 by Dredge, posted 05-03-2017 2:12 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 585 of 936 (807404)
05-03-2017 12:41 AM
Reply to: Message 548 by Dr Adequate
05-01-2017 9:00 AM


Re: Part of the problem?
Evolution is heritable change within a population.
If so, then it is possible to accept evolution as a fact without believing that all life evolved from a common ancestor.
The theory of evolution is how it happens, ie, mutation, selection, drift, recombination, lateral gene transfer.
Your definition seems to be miles away from, say, the definition that Wiki offers:"The theory of evolution is the process by which organisms change over time as a result of changes in heritable physical or behavioural traits." This definition contains nothing at all about "how it happens" - as in your definition.
Wiki's definition of the theory of evolution is more like your definition of evolutionie, "heritable change in a population". Quite a difference.
Is it any wonder creationists get confused about definitions of "evolution" and "the theory of evolution", when evolutionists themselves can't even agree?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 548 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-01-2017 9:00 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 586 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-03-2017 1:00 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 603 by Taq, posted 05-03-2017 11:22 AM Dredge has replied

  
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