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Author Topic:   Science is Revealed Truth
Taq
Member
Posts: 7882
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.1


(1)
Message 31 of 150 (807493)
05-03-2017 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Davidjay
05-03-2017 9:33 AM


Davidjay writes:

To find out if someone exists and is a real person, the ultimate test is meeting them.
Christians say, they have meet Jesus, Jesus said, He can meet any person who wants to know if he is real. Thats the ultimate test, and once someone has meet someone who exists, they KNOW that person is real. Its not a belief system, a hoping, a faith, but a KNOWING.

Scientists usually just believe, a CHRISTIAN KNOWS JESUS is REAL

Then show us a Youtube video of someone meeting Jesus.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Davidjay, posted 05-03-2017 9:33 AM Davidjay has responded

Replies to this message:
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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2223
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 32 of 150 (807494)
05-03-2017 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Davidjay
05-03-2017 8:38 AM


In science, the real world involves what we can not see, because the EMF is real and is proven to be real over and over and over again.

Yeah, none of us have disputed this. Gosh, even when no one is doing science they use the Electromagnetic Spectrum, for example listening to radio in the car.

WE know about x rays, radio waves, etc etc etc, inrared waves, below and baove our limited seeing range.

YOU don't seem to know much though.....inrared??

Denial by the worldly people who refuse to go beyond to the world of science and spirituality,

What?

go beyond to the world of science and spirituality

Oh, you mean like Never Never Land.

Real scientists are not afraid of the dark, or the spiritual world.

True. finally you said something true......what is the probability?


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
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Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 493 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 33 of 150 (807497)
05-03-2017 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Taq
05-03-2017 11:05 AM


Jesus can prove HIMSELF in whatever way He chooses...

(Even to those that mock HIM and are in the process of killing His people, as Paul was doing

********************

http://www.davidjayjordan.com/Salvation.html

SALVATION

Salvation is the way in which the Lord, Our Creator, saves us from our sins and the penalty we
deserve for committing them. For as we all know in our hearts, none of us are perfect. We have all
sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23) And because the wages of sin is death
(Romans 6:23, Isaiah 64:6), we either have to pay with our lives or have somebody replace us, for
without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. (Hebrews 9:22). This is why Jesus chose
to die for us on the cross. (I Corinthians 1:18) some 2000 years ago. He was the Lamb of God
(Genesis 22:8, John 1:29) that was sacrificed for the atonement or forgiveness of our sins, IF we
accept Him as our Savoiur. We cant pay for it or earn it in any way including trying to obey ten or a
thousand commandments. His salvation is a total gift. (Romans 6:23b). We just have to realize that
we aren't righteous and never will be, and that only He is good, the LORD is OUR
RIGHTEOUSNESS. (Jeremiah 23:6). For ONLY with JESUS is there forgiveness of sins, and its only
through His free gift of salvation that we can have eternal life, starting now on into eternity. (John 5:
24)

If we reject Him, we reject the Father. If we accept Him, we accept the Father. For as Jesus so simply
and eloquently said to Nicodemus, one of the Masters of Israel that knew so little about spiritual
things.

You must be born again Except a man be born of water and of the spirit, he cannot enter into the
kingdom of God. That which born of the flesh is flesh, and that which born of the spirit is spirit¦ For
God so loved the world that He gave His ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, that whosoever believeth in Him,
should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:1-21)

Believing just means drinking in or receiving this truth. For ˜as many as received Him, to them gave
He the POWER to become the sons of God. (John 1:12). So to receive, you need only to pray or
communicate to Him with all your heart, and He will hear you. (Jeremiah 33:3). You can pray in
your heart or out loud, alone or in a group, but whichever way you reach out to Jesus, be assured that
He will answer you. For He promised that everyone that seeketh findeth, and everyone that asketh
shall receive, and everyone that knocketh it shall be opened unto them. (Mathew 7:7) So if you ask
Him into your heart in prayer, He shall come into your heart and soul. Revelation 3:20).

If you ask for forgiveness, Jesus will forgive you your past sins, present sins and even your future sins.
(1John 1:9) For the Lord is good and His MERCY endureth forever. (Psalm 118:1). For if you
receive Him, you will have eternal life and hope and a purpose for living. Why not pray NOW for
today is the day of SALVATION. (I Corinthians 6:2)

Sometimes there are great feelings, sometimes not. Sometimes miraculous things happen right after,
sometimes not. But regardless, nothing can change the FACT and absolute certainty, that if you call
out to the Lord, He will personally answer you, and He will save you. You will have SALVATION. It is
His Promise, for as Jesus said, "I will not leave thee nor forsake thee" (Hebrews 13:5b) He has never
lost one of his sheep. (John 6:37). It's law. It is His WORD and He has always kept His Word. (I
John 5:11)

Jesus loves you !!!

The Creator of ALL the Universe loves you !!!

In His Service

David and Trixie

If you received Jesus as your Saviour,
please continue on, by receiving
His HOLY SPIRIT

******************************

Praying whether eyes open or closed is the best way, you choose, you have the guts to ask HIM IN.


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Taq, posted 05-03-2017 11:05 AM Taq has not yet responded

    
Coyote
Member (Idle past 270 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 34 of 150 (807498)
05-03-2017 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Davidjay
05-03-2017 11:05 AM


Re: Real Scientists...
In other words, you can't answer my evidence disproving the global flood and your "exact" date.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Davidjay, posted 05-03-2017 11:05 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30981
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 35 of 150 (807507)
05-03-2017 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Davidjay
05-03-2017 11:05 AM


Re: Real Scientists...
Davidjay writes:

Real scientists test out and see if Jesus is real

More absurdities from you I see.

How can one test Jesus to see if Jesus is real?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by vimesey, posted 05-03-2017 12:08 PM jar has acknowledged this reply
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vimesey
Member
Posts: 956
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 5.7


(1)
Message 36 of 150 (807509)
05-03-2017 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by jar
05-03-2017 11:40 AM


Re: Real Scientists...
You could use a refractometer and a hydrometer to measure the holy spirit ?

http://www.bellinghamandstanley.com/ltd/abv_kit.html


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

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Diomedes
Member
Posts: 861
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 37 of 150 (807510)
05-03-2017 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by jar
05-03-2017 11:40 AM


Re: Real Scientists...
How can one test Jesus to see if Jesus is real?

You just have to watch The Big Lebowski.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by jar, posted 05-03-2017 11:40 AM jar has acknowledged this reply

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19869
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 38 of 150 (807511)
05-03-2017 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Davidjay
05-03-2017 9:29 AM


Re: Real Scientists test out Jesus !
You yourself have to prove things to yourself and stop bowing to the pressures of others, and intimidation, fear of losing your job or friends, etc etc... you have to have the guts to prove Jesus to yourself. ...

But why just Jesus?

Why not Mohammad, Buddha, Krishna, the Great Spirit, etc. ... ? Why not test every single religion you can with the same dedication to uncovering the truth?

There are followers of all other religions that are just as fervent, just as convinced, just as dedicated. Even in different sects within each religion there is disagreement in what individual people believe.

Thus the test you propose is neither discriminatory, nor complete, and it cannot be replicated by others with the same results, there is no consensus other than "god/s exist" ... and even that is not testable in a scientific manner.

Go to the source, dont be whimpy and evasive, be a real scientist, and find OUT.

Curiously I have searched, my conclusion is quite different from yours. I also reject all prepackaged materials -- if it is truth it is findable without revelations to/by others.

True science is repeatable: you can destroy all knowledge and start with a blank slate, and you will find gravity, evolution, the basics of chemistry and physics all over with virtually identical results.

Try building your religious beliefs from a blank slate and you will come to some interesting conclusions. At least I did (see signature).

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Davidjay, posted 05-03-2017 9:29 AM Davidjay has responded

Replies to this message:
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Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 493 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 39 of 150 (807517)
05-03-2017 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by RAZD
05-03-2017 12:25 PM


Re: Real Scientists test out Jesus !
Why Jesus, test Him and find out why he is different.

Believe in Buuda, set up your statues and dont hurt mosquitos etc.... see if it is the truth.. But then again Budda never said what Jesus said.

Compare the words, test the words, analyse the words, dig deep, dont be shallow and flippant.

Know the difference, Experience the difference... Test everyone of Jesus doctrines and principles and decide. True scientists test

Test darn Ya's test, rather than your endless bablle and denials.. Challenge Jesus, if you say He didn;t answer your half hearted plea or prayer or give you any truths, so be it.

Dont go by semantics like the evolutionists, dont be a theorists all your life, get in the game and experience, and prove things for yourself. Have some balls or ovaries, and courage enough to test and see.


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by RAZD, posted 05-03-2017 12:25 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Diomedes, posted 05-03-2017 3:26 PM Davidjay has not yet responded
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ringo
Member
Posts: 16626
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


(4)
Message 40 of 150 (807520)
05-03-2017 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Davidjay
05-03-2017 11:05 AM


Re: Real Scientists...
Davidjay writes:

Real scientists test out and see if Jesus is real...


The best evidence that Jesus is not real is the behaviour of Christians.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Davidjay, posted 05-03-2017 11:05 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 493 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 41 of 150 (807521)
05-03-2017 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by RAZD
05-03-2017 12:25 PM


Re: Real Scientists test out Jesus !
Forget about the followers and trying to blame the followers. GO TO THE SOURCE... Quite looking for excuses, find the author, find the Saviour if there is one, and stop being so hesitant and wary....and immobilized by fear.

You can do it privately, none of the other atheists and evolutionists have to know you prayed or sought the Lord, or asked for guidance or TRUTH, you can save face. No one needs to know, it can be a secret between you and the Lord. You dont have to grandstand or make a show of your answer seeking, just do it secretly and privately.

If Jesus doesnt reveal himself to you, so be it. You have the excuse you always wanted, rather than your half hearted complaints, excuses, denials, half truths and so called unanswered questions. Just be honest and go for it.


.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.

.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by RAZD, posted 05-03-2017 12:25 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

    
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 861
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 42 of 150 (807522)
05-03-2017 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Davidjay
05-03-2017 3:18 PM


Re: Real Scientists test out Jesus !
Believe in Buuda, set up your statues and dont hurt mosquitos etc.... see if it is the truth.. But then again Budda never said what Jesus said.

You spelled 'Buddha' two different ways. And both of them wrong.


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mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4656
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 43 of 150 (807532)
05-03-2017 4:26 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by RAZD
05-03-2017 9:10 AM


Re: Real Scientists test out Jesus !
RAZD, I would say you haven't proven that truth is only true if it is scientific.

I would say the true implication is this;

Some scientific theories have led to truth because they were testable scientifically bu the ones that are clearly true, can all be directly tested.

I think that's all you have shown. However, there is an important difference between the various theories, some scientific tests are more consequential than others and evolution is unable to be put under those tests.

For example, exotic air, gravity, germ theory, forces, can be directly tested and they reveal an ENDLESS induction of identical results. They also reveal the same deductions. They can be tested operationally in the present and we can clearly conclude from the same results, that we have found "truth" scientifically.

When people fall to the ground, people not falling off the earth at it's other side, etc...all of the direct tests we can do to show there is some force keeping us on earth, can be performed any time we want, to prove to each other those things are true. We can place a rat in a sealed dome and see if it loses consciousness, we can see germs under the microscope.

So the problem with your argument is that it seeks to tar all science with the same brush but logically I can prove that macro evolution cannot be directly scientifically tested in an identical way as the aforementioned description.

You cannot, in a lab, show a bellows type lung evolve into a contraflow lung or a scale which is actually part of a whole skin, evolve proto-feathers that lead to feathers. You cannot show a prokaryotic cell evolved into a proto-eukaryotic cell, by showing the bacteria migrate into the cell to create the organelle.

None of these things are factual, scientifically, they are all claims of the historical claim of macro evolution and cannot be tested directly. You have to believe the, "just so" story together with circumstantial evidence, in order to accept that this happened in history, against the immense sophistication of design in nature as proven by biomimetics.

So I believe essentially and I say this without any personal offence meant whatsoever, as I do appreciate you and always have, but essentially your argument is a sweeping generalisation fallacy. That; "because science is known to reveal truth and evolution is science, therefore evolution is true."

Secondly, if you argue that "science is the only way to reveal truth," it does not therefore follow that, "if something is true therefore it is science."

You have a silent assumption/premise, you haven't stated, which is that, "there is no truth outside of science".

That is based on argumentum ad ignorantiam and logical positivism;

that because, "we cannot detect certain thing P scientifically, therefore it is not there and is false".

Disclaimer: if however you are not really attempting to argue those things, and are not going that far, fair enough, but it seems to me these are the real reasons why evolutionists argue these types of arguments from scientific authority, as a kind of argument from authority.

Really all science is, is a representation of modernity. There isn't one magical, uniting method which can give you evolution, really science is just glorified reasoning. Science like evolution was accepted by men, not for scientific reasons because all of those things Darwin argued, are not presently accepted by evolutionists by and large, meaning science accepted evolution predicated on false things such as monera, false things such as natural selection alone resulting in speciation, false concepts such as the simplicity of the cell, and it's assumed plasticity, etc....scientists today accept evolution for more convoluted reasons, but really if we base evolution as a claim on it's original form, it was accepted based on wrong reasons, and now they create reasons to carry on accepting it by creating new reasonings.

But why should intelligent people accept the new reasons when they were wrong the first time out?

So it's a myth that science is this perfect tool, IMHO.


This message is a reply to:
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mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4656
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


(1)
Message 44 of 150 (807533)
05-03-2017 4:29 PM


One thing I would agree with the evolutionist about, is that evolution scientists are, "real scientists". Yes, evolution is, "real science", in the sense that if it qualifies as a theory being put forward then it can be defined that way.

A "real scientist" is defined by their credentials, so I don't agree that evolutionists aren't real scientists. If they have a phd in a particular scientific field then that is what qualifies a real scientist, logically, because otherwise we could say that, "no real Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge."

So I don't think we need to disrespect evolution theory and evolutionary scientists, in that strict context.


  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16626
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


(2)
Message 45 of 150 (807534)
05-03-2017 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by mike the wiz
05-03-2017 4:26 PM


Re: Real Scientists test out Jesus !
mike the wiz writes:

But why should intelligent people accept the new reasons when they were wrong the first time out?

So it's a myth that science is this perfect tool, IMHO.


What could be better than a self-correcting tool?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by mike the wiz, posted 05-03-2017 4:26 PM mike the wiz has not yet responded

  
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