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Author Topic:   Atheism Cannot Rationally Explain Morals.
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2495 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 737 of 1006 (806240)
04-24-2017 2:03 AM
Reply to: Message 732 by Dredge
04-24-2017 12:50 AM


Re: You really need to drop that straw man by now
Dredge writes:
Evolution is as dumb as a cake; it has no intelligence; it is a blind, mindless, unconscious, aimless series of random accidents - yet it supposedly produced creatures who have incredible minds capable of love, imagination, ethics, art, planning, designing, constructing, dreaming, problem solving, inventing, etc, etc.
Are you suggesting that non-intelligently designed beings couldn't have such qualities? Surely you're not suggesting that your God would not be capable of imagination, planning, designing and constructing etc.?
Dredge writes:
... and atheists like to claim the higher ground over theists when it comes to reason. Bizarre.
Perhaps it occurs to some of those atheists that intelligent design can't be a pre-requisite for the existence of intelligence. You seem to be arguing that it is. Bizarre.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 732 by Dredge, posted 04-24-2017 12:50 AM Dredge has not replied

Replies to this message:
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bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2495 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 775 of 1006 (806648)
04-27-2017 3:32 AM
Reply to: Message 772 by Davidjay
04-26-2017 10:33 PM


Banana Karma
Davidjay writes:
Your banana, wont make you happy or help you reproduce, Dr....
I thought you would have known this., as a supposed Doctor
We are and were created to recreat within only our KIND. Find somebody of your own kind rather than becoming one with your banana.
But the choice is yours
Spot on, Dave. You tell him. One of the worst aspects of modern atheists is their habit of sticking bananas in the wrong orifice, presumably in the dumb evolutionist hope of producing a hybrid that they can converse with while eating. You can even see them doing this in public as here: Banana Bar.
The choice is theirs, as you say, but the time will surely come when the Lord will smite them with fire.

This message is a reply to:
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bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2495 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


(2)
Message 836 of 1006 (807144)
05-01-2017 4:25 AM
Reply to: Message 835 by Dredge
05-01-2017 4:19 AM


Are non-created beings like gods meaningless?
Dredge writes:
I don't have an issue with that. If you find meaning and happiness in life, good luck to you. If I were an atheist, I would consider life meaningless, morality meaningless and beliefs meaningless and actions meaningless and emotions meaningless.
Wouldn't your god be in the same position as that speculative atheist? It would either have to make up its own meaning, or, to your way of thinking, be meaningless.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 835 by Dredge, posted 05-01-2017 4:19 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 870 by Dredge, posted 05-03-2017 1:50 AM bluegenes has replied

  
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2495 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


(1)
Message 883 of 1006 (807560)
05-04-2017 1:52 AM
Reply to: Message 870 by Dredge
05-03-2017 1:50 AM


Re: Are non-created beings like gods meaningless?
Dredge writes:
bluegenes writes:
Dredge writes:
I don't have an issue with that. If you find meaning and happiness in life, good luck to you. If I were an atheist, I would consider life meaningless, morality meaningless and beliefs meaningless and actions meaningless and emotions meaningless.
Wouldn't your god be in the same position as that speculative atheist? It would either have to make up its own meaning, or, to your way of thinking, be meaningless.
You make a good point. Unfortunately, I can't speak for "my god" with respect to what he thinks about meaning. But I am of the opinion that only immortality gives life meaning, and since God is immortal, he has at least some chance of finding meaning.
Interesting theology for a Christian. "In the beginning, there was meaning, then there was God", rather than the other way around.
Also, wouldn't it have been better to use the word "existence" rather than life, as life itself is mortal?
I don't think "existence" can have any purely objective meaning, and purely objective morals can't exist in theism or atheism.
That's different from the question of explaining scientifically why intelligent social animals like us might have the concept of morality, something which could and has been attempted.
"Atheism", of course, doesn't explain anything, just as non-belief in Santa Claus doesn't tell us where the presents actually come from. The O.P. of this thread is a mess, but I think its author wants to say that only a belief in a god can "explain morals", but certainly fails to make that case.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 870 by Dredge, posted 05-03-2017 1:50 AM Dredge has not replied

  
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2495 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


(2)
Message 890 of 1006 (807570)
05-04-2017 3:45 AM
Reply to: Message 887 by Dredge
05-04-2017 3:36 AM


Re: Evolutionists can not explain morals
Dredge writes:
Prove that it's a man-made religion.
If he had shown you an acorn and claimed it came from an oak tree, would you have asked for proof?
As with acorns, only one source of religions can be shown to exist. Human invention.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 887 by Dredge, posted 05-04-2017 3:36 AM Dredge has not replied

  
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2495 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


(1)
Message 987 of 1006 (808479)
05-11-2017 3:14 AM
Reply to: Message 985 by Dredge
05-11-2017 2:49 AM


Dredge writes:
Can you cite one example of Hitler invoking the name of Jesus Christ?
He tended not to use the Jesus, just Christ, Our Lord etc.
quote:
The best characterization is provided by the product of this religious education, the Jew himself. His life is only of this world, and his spirit is inwardly as alien to true Christianity as his nature two thousand years previous was to the great founder of the new doctrine. Of course, the latter made no secret of his attitude toward the Jewish people, and when necessary he even took the whip to drive from the temple of the Lord this adversary of all humanity, who then as always saw in religion nothing but an instrument for his business existence. In return, Christ was nailed to the cross, while our present-day party Christians debase themselves to begging for Jewish votes at elections and later try to arrange political swindles with atheistic Jewish parties— and this against their own nation.
Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1, Chapter 11
quote:
My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly, it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people. And when I look on my people I see them work and work and toil and labor, and at the end of the week they have only for their wages wretchedness and misery. When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil, if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom today this poor people are plundered and exposed.
Adolf Hitler, speech in Munich on April 12, 1922, countering a political opponent, Count Lerchenfeld, who opposed antisemitism on his personal Christian feelings.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 985 by Dredge, posted 05-11-2017 2:49 AM Dredge has not replied

  
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2495 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 991 of 1006 (808665)
05-12-2017 5:57 AM
Reply to: Message 988 by Dredge
05-12-2017 4:45 AM


Hitler's soul.
Dredge writes:
Yet there are Hitler quotes that indicate he hated Christianity. So it's a very confusing picture. Anyhow, there always exists the distinct possibility that he used pro-Christian rhetoric to appeal to a Christiian audience. Oldest trick in the book.
Perhaps you should hedge your bets, and only pray for his soul every other day.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 988 by Dredge, posted 05-12-2017 4:45 AM Dredge has not replied

Replies to this message:
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