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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1764 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Trump's order on immigration and the wacko liberal response | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
vimesey Member (Idle past 392 days) Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined:
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Well, I disagree with that, but to come back to a point I made earlier, this is a quotation from you earlier in this thread:
Islam is not a religion in the sense other religions are. It's a satanic murderous ideology, and NOT to discriminate against any such dangerous subversive ideology is suicidal in/sanity. How do you feel about Trump's speech, separating the minority of terrorist murderers from the vast majority of peaceful Muslims ? He's acknowledging, accepting even celebrating Islam in that speech. Has he got that wrong ? Is he lying ?Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
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Faith ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 1764 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
There's a difference between addressing people in the Middle East and considering inviting them into the US. I don't know if he's hoping to encourage the moderates among them or really believes that about Islam. I think it's mostly the former but I'm not sure at this point. Bush really did believe that Islam is a religion of peace, a total delusion. I think it's good to appeal to those Muslims who don't want to live their ideology to the max, but never forget that the ideology itself is a murderous\ totalitarianism.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
At least I hate things that deserve to be hated. You hate people who disagree with you or who have different opinions and world view than your own. How deserving is that? I appreciate the honesty. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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Faith ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 1764 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I hate ideologies, not people. I hate Leftism with a purple passion.
(You have a TERRIBLE reading problem, or logic problem, as I've pointed out before. You just about never get anything right that I say) Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
On the one hand, Trump pleased American Muslims by calling Islam "one of world's great faiths," a departure from his accusation, made just last year, that "Islam hates us." He also sought to undercut terrorists' arguments that they embody Islamic ideals I suppose that this stuff is easily dismissed as just the press lying again. To be fair, Trump's message was a mix of condemnation of Islamic terrorism in very general and strong terms, and praise for Islam as a religion. But there is no escaping that Trump drew a distinction between terrorism as a false practice of Islam and the Islamic religion. I don't expect you to ever do that. I'll note also that Trump said nothing to the Saudi's about human rights violations. Clearly Trump's position as expressed this weekend is somewhere north of your own. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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I hate ideologies, not people. I hate Leftism with a purple passion. Then you don't express yourself very well. You aim your words at people. You said that you hated some specific founding fathers because of their ideologies. Either you are not telling the truth now, or you didn't tell the truth then. You've also express wishes for ill on folks here. That's not just hate for their ideology. Nobody here hates people more than you do. ABE:
Message 589 Faith writes: I hate you all, you hate me. There is no give and take possible. There is nothing left. NoNukes writes: I don't hate you. I won't speak for everyone here, but I suspect that almost nobody posting here hates you. As for your posts, I love reading those. Your posts actually reinforce beliefs I hold about the far right and fundamentalists, so why wouldn't I like them? Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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vimesey Member (Idle past 392 days) Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined: |
I don't know if he's hoping to encourage the moderates among them or really believes that about Islam. I think it's mostly the former but I'm not sure at this point. So on balance, you feel he was lying about his true views as to Islam ?Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Evidently enough that procedures are in place to prevent it. So hardly ever then, I guess. But by that logic, these lawyers must be taking advantage of immigrants enough too because there is that law in place that is being used to try to stop them. Regardless, this doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me.
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marc9000 Member Posts: 1536 From: Ky U.S. Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
So, Marc, you believe that the USA was founded on erroneous principles and you would like to see it destroyed and new principles established? I believe the EXACT opposite, but you already knew that ![]() (I'm jealous of DavidJay, he's been getting all the suspensions lately, cm-on, let me have it! I'll toss and turn all night!)
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marc9000 Member Posts: 1536 From: Ky U.S. Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Sure marc9000. Where "brand new rights" means as established in the 5th and 14th amendments, respectively enacted over 200 and 100 years ago. Nice try though. 5th Amendment;
quote: Let me guess, in between the words "person" and "shall", you pulled the words "including anyone in the world who illegally enters the U.S. no matter how they did it", out of thin air? 14th amendment;
quote: So you believe when it said "any person" later in the text, without specifying that it was referring to U.S. citizens, that means the founders intended for it to include illegal aliens who entered the U.S. no matter how they did it? The above was section 1 only, do you find welcoming references to illegal immigrants in sections 2 thru 5? I have to ask, since liberals seem to find no rights for the people to keep and bear arms in the second amendment. As I've said before, the only reason I come to this funny place is to try to get some understanding of how the liberal mind works. Seldom does anyone seem to want to help me. They just troll, and don't answer my questions.
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marc9000 Member Posts: 1536 From: Ky U.S. Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Remember that we showed you that the so called Leftist spin on the constitution was also a view held by some of the founding fathers? I must have missed it. Could you link me to that?
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2641 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 5.9
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Marc writes:
14th amendment;
quote: So you believe when it said "any person" later in the text, without specifying that it was referring to U.S. citizens, that means the founders intended for it to include illegal aliens who entered the U.S. no matter how they did it? DAMN STRAIGHT. Any person means any human being. Most literate people read it that way. What's wrong with your interpretation? Due process and equal protection mean what they mean. Edited by xongsmith, : any human- xongsmith, 5.7d
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4597 From: Oregon, USA Joined:
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DAMN STRAIGHT. Any person means any human being. Most literate people read it that way. What's wrong with your interpretation? Due process and equal protection mean what they mean. I remember reading this here before, but we can only expect and demand that Americans are given due process and equal protection in other countries if every person is given the same treatment here in the U.S.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2641 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 5.9
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dragonfly writes:
I remember reading this here before, but we can only expect and demand that Americans are given due process and equal protection in other countries if every person is given the same treatment here in the U.S. Yes, I understand that and agree. We are supposed to better, aren't we?. They won't be so eager to treat us that way if we don't. This is a unilateral principle, isn't it? A 'cross we have to bear?" Edited by xongsmith, : No reason given.- xongsmith, 5.7d
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marc9000 Member Posts: 1536 From: Ky U.S. Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
marc9000 writes: So you believe when it said "any person" later in the text, without specifying that it was referring to U.S. citizens, that means the founders intended for it to include illegal aliens who entered the U.S. no matter how they did it? DAMN STRAIGHT. Any person means any human being. Most literate people read it that way. What's wrong with your interpretation? Due process and equal protection mean what they mean. Here's an explanation of my interpretation; That amendment was written about the end of slavery. There was no intent involved to include illegal aliens. Let's look at the first sentence;
quote: That was intended to give new citizenship rights to former slaves, and it was a pre-cursor to what was about to follow. If this amendment was written to include BOTH former slaves and anyone else in the world who made it into the U.S. by any means, there would be NO REASON for that sentence to be in there. It has always been common knowledge, that, unlike the Declaration of Independence, the Federalist Papers etc. that the Constitution and Bill of Rights had great pains taken in their writings to be brief and concise. 100 years later, the same pains were taken with new amendments. They wouldn't have wasted that sentence if it was not absolutely necessary for it to be in there. And it didn't in any way point towards illegal aliens, it pointed away from them. Now for the next sentence;
quote: Why do you think it said "citizens"? Why didn't it say "inhabitants"? Now for the final part;
quote: Here it just says "person" twice, but it addresses liberty and property. Something no rational person expects a criminal illegal to have. I don't advocate cruel and unusual punishments for illegals. But it costs money to lavishly provide them with speedy trials and air conditioned jail cells and all the other things todays U.S. citizen criminals enjoy. There can be downgraded, cheaper methods to deal with them. At $20 trillion in debt, the U.S. can't afford anything more. As I've said elsewhere with no meaningful response, the liberal left has 2 choices, they can try to say the current U.S. Constitution is outdated and should be replaced, (an honest assessment of their opinion) or they can try to twist and distort the current U.S. Constitution and claim it's a socialist document. I'm glad they've chosen the latter, it's part of the reason why Republicans now have 2/3 of the governorships, majorities in the House and Senate, and the presidency. Today's voters are waking up more and more to the dishonesty of Democrats.
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