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Author | Topic: Isaiah 53 speaks about ISRAEL, and not about the messiah. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Davidjay writes:
God chose Jacob. Unless you want to conclude that Jacob tricked God, you might want to rethink.
As a bible lesson, you really need to study the life of Jacob, the trickster.He was lazy and therefore became a trickster, trying to trick his way into blessings...and being the chosen one. He tricked his father into blessing him rather than blessing his brother Esau.
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Davidjay  Suspended Member (Idle past 2349 days) Posts: 1026 From: B.C Canada Joined: |
The Lord choose Jacob because he changed and repented and learned trickery was not a means to an end. The end does not justify the means.... you must be honourable and just and fair along the way.
Its the principle of the Lord, and He demands it. Jacob learned and had his name changed to Israel. Israel is the name of a person who changed. This giving hope to evolutionists who by their personal choice can change and get a new name...called creationists of the CreatorEvolution is not science. It did not create life nor did it diversify life. It didn;t create the laws that exist nor did it create science. It is a religion and not Science. Intelligent design always defeats evolutions lack of design and lack of intelligence. Luck and Chance is not a scientific doctrine,
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Davidjay writes:
Nope. God chose Jacob before he was even born. He said to Rebekah:
The Lord choose Jacob because he changed and repented and learned trickery was not a means to an end.quote:Isaac was the only one who needed to be fooled into doing the will of God.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Nope. God chose Jacob before he was even born. He said to Rebekah: One might argue that this was prophecy rather than promise. But that is kinda hard to separate out when God is doing the talking. I think you have it right though. I'd also argue that Jacob's contriteness and prayer when he thought his brother Esau was going to kick his butt was not exactly an example of Jacob taking any kind of high road. Jacob "repented" out of pure self-preservation. On the other hand, Esau readily and freely forgave his brother. Who was the true man between those two?
Davidjay writes: The Lord choose Jacob because he changed and repented and learned trickery was not a means to an end. No real evidence that Jacob learned any such lesson. He actually played tricks on Laban Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
And in the Bible it is actually the God character that is described as a trickster during the wrestling match, not Jacob.
Genesis 32 writes:
24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. 25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.
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Davidjay  Suspended Member (Idle past 2349 days) Posts: 1026 From: B.C Canada Joined: |
No real evidence that Jacob learned any such lesson. He actually played tricks on Laban
Nonukes, you do know some bible..good on ya, and good on your name picking,as NoNukes is a GOOD NAME, and names do have meaning and significance.... which is what we are talking about. Jacob was intelligent and as an observer was scientific and learned from experience or asking the Lord about sheep and vision and striped 'kids'. please correct me and my memory if wrong......... he knew genetics from observing Evolution is not science. It did not create life nor did it diversify life. It didn;t create the laws that exist nor did it create science. It is a religion and not Science. Intelligent design always defeats evolutions lack of design and lack of intelligence. Luck and Chance is not a scientific doctrine,
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Davidjay  Suspended Member (Idle past 2349 days) Posts: 1026 From: B.C Canada Joined: |
Yes, Jacob was still a bit of a trickster when faced with a greater more vile trickster in Laban..... but when faced with death , his own his wives and children and sheep at the hands of Esau who he tricked, Jacob repented and wrestled with the angel and caught him by the ****** Thats right the **********, and wouldnt let go....... he was serious and he had changed and wanted to be different, and change his ways.
Then and only then the Lord changed his name from Jacob the deceiver to Israel the righteous. Jacob changed, repented, choose the Lord, choose honesty and truth rather than trickery.. Awesome true story... Thanks for the reminder... Edited by Davidjay, : No reason given. Edited by Davidjay, : No reason given.Evolution is not science. It did not create life nor did it diversify life. It didn;t create the laws that exist nor did it create science. It is a religion and not Science. Intelligent design always defeats evolutions lack of design and lack of intelligence. Luck and Chance is not a scientific doctrine,
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Davidjay  Suspended Member (Idle past 2349 days) Posts: 1026 From: B.C Canada Joined: |
....
Edited by Davidjay, : mispostEvolution is not science. It did not create life nor did it diversify life. It didn;t create the laws that exist nor did it create science. It is a religion and not Science. Intelligent design always defeats evolutions lack of design and lack of intelligence. Luck and Chance is not a scientific doctrine,
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Jacob repented and wrestled with the angel and caught him by the ****** Thats right the **********, and wouldnt let go....... he was serious and he had changed and wanted to be different, and change his ways. I have seen various interpretations of this incident. Your interpretation is... quite fanciful. And more than a little bit self-serving. There is nothing in the text that attaches this incident to Jacob's repenting. I will also note that repenting without making his brother whole or just to avoid a butt whooping does not demonstrate contriteness. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Nonukes, you do know some bible..good on ya, Your condescension is not appreciated.
Jacob was intelligent and as an observer was scientific and learned from experience or asking the Lord about sheep and vision and striped 'kids'. please correct me and my memory if wrong......... he knew genetics from observing Do you really believe that you can get colored sheep or cattle by having your animals mate in front of striped rods? FWIW, many of the folks in this thread have discussed this particular story in detail in a previous thread. I am well aware of what the Bible says about "genetics". Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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Davidjay  Suspended Member (Idle past 2349 days) Posts: 1026 From: B.C Canada Joined: |
When your life is on the line, and you and your loved ones are about to be slaughtered, because of your horrible tricking ways, does make one more contrite and more humble, and does make you search your heart to see if your sins were that bad, and make you ask for FORGIVENESS.
Just ask atheists and ************* before their passing.... Ive seen it many times, many get real, others get worse and worse and worse..... until they are no more, and go down still swinging and complaining about the Lords unfairness even as they go to their MAKER. You decide why Jacob was renamed Israel...Evolution is not science. It did not create life nor did it diversify life. It didn;t create the laws that exist nor did it create science. It is a religion and not Science. Intelligent design always defeats evolutions lack of design and lack of intelligence. Luck and Chance is not a scientific doctrine,
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Davidjay  Suspended Member (Idle past 2349 days) Posts: 1026 From: B.C Canada Joined: |
Do you really believe that you can get colored sheep or cattle by having your animals mate in front of striped rods? FWIW, many of the folks in this thread have discussed this particular story in detail in a previous thread. I am well aware of what the Bible says about "genetics".
Yea, Jacob knew his genetics, and knew from observation, and knew from asking the Lord, as to how he could out trick the trickier Laban......... mind you ***** ******* un************ evolutionists will say his visual techique proofs evolution in the sheep becoming a new KIND. But again, its just superifical and a color change...and as we know color change is not an evolutionary proof.... Via la difference and Jacob got his true reward in sheep (of a different color)Evolution is not science. It did not create life nor did it diversify life. It didn;t create the laws that exist nor did it create science. It is a religion and not Science. Intelligent design always defeats evolutions lack of design and lack of intelligence. Luck and Chance is not a scientific doctrine,
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Davidjay  Suspended Member (Idle past 2349 days) Posts: 1026 From: B.C Canada Joined: |
I didnt know sex was ever discussed HEREIN before, I thought it was banned or not promoted.... or maybe thats only for me.....
But Yea, I might look into that biblical sex thread..... and post therein and thereon, and herein and hereon on further hereon til finnished. IGTGOHWFLHB Edited by Davidjay, : No reason given.Evolution is not science. It did not create life nor did it diversify life. It didn;t create the laws that exist nor did it create science. It is a religion and not Science. Intelligent design always defeats evolutions lack of design and lack of intelligence. Luck and Chance is not a scientific doctrine,
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Yea, Jacob knew his genetics, and knew from observation The method of producing colored offspring that Jacob used has nothing to do with genetics. In fact, having sheep mate in front of striped rods will not affect the color of the offspring.
and knew from asking the Lord, as to how he could out trick the trickier Laban Perhaps you will point out where the Lord told Jacob that it was okay to trick Laban and to take on that second wife. That would be interesting to see given that some folks have claimed that the Lord does not promote bigamy. Here is an example of a request for Biblical Research and not debate. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
When your life is on the line, and you and your loved ones are about to be slaughtered That is the kind of repenting that murderers do when they are facing the gallows. It is just words without action. Did Jacob offer to return his brother's birthright or did he keep it for himself? Then he did not truly repent.
Just ask atheists and ************* before their passing.. What is the reward for such mewling? Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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