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Author Topic:   The Meaning Of The Trinity
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 277 of 1864 (797604)
01-24-2017 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 276 by Phat
01-24-2017 11:26 AM


Re: It's A Wonderful Life in Communion
Phat writes:
There is no reason nor purpose for believing in them.
What's the reason or purpose for believing in God?
Phat writes:
lack of evidence plays a small role.
So what's the difference between the loch Ness monster, leprechauns, the Tooth Fairy and God?
Phat writes:
Answer me this: Would you spend as much time answering questions about Leprechauns as you do about God and Jesus?
Sure. Start a topic.
But bear in mind that I know a lot more about the fictional Christian God than I know about leprechauns. We don't have many leprechaun missionaries trying to convince us to believe.
Phat writes:
What is it about the latter characters that make everyone suddenly want their opinion to be known?
The Internet has a tendency to suck opinions out of people. Don't kid yourself that a lot of chatter about your belief validates your belief.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 276 by Phat, posted 01-24-2017 11:26 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 278 by Phat, posted 01-29-2017 10:05 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 279 of 1864 (797923)
01-29-2017 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 278 by Phat
01-29-2017 10:05 AM


Re: It's A Wonderful Life in Communion
Paht writes:
ringo writes:
what's the difference between the loch Ness monster, leprechauns, the Tooth Fairy and God?
God exists. God existed before humans even had the capacity or ability to make Him up.
Nope. You may believe that one fictional character exists and others do not but that doesn't make your belief different from an atheist who believes in the Loch Ness monster.
Phat writes:
You won't find many missionaries from fictional characters.
Sure you will. Ever hear of Mormons? Cultists of all kinds? Snake-oil salesmen? What they're selling is pure fiction.
Phat writes:
People think long and hard about giving their life....
Clearly not. Ever hear of mountain climbers? Thrill-seekers of all kinds?
Phat writes:
Subjective evidence counts also.
No it doesn't. If it's subjective, it isn't evidence.
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
Don't kid yourself that a lot of chatter about your belief validates your belief.
My point is that validity can be derived in ways apart from objective evidence.
You're trying to claim that if a lot of people believe it, it must be true (valid). That's nonsense.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by Phat, posted 01-29-2017 10:05 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 280 by Phat, posted 02-09-2017 3:08 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 281 of 1864 (799342)
02-09-2017 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 280 by Phat
02-09-2017 3:08 AM


Re: The Proof is in the pudding...if we can find the pudding
Phat writes:
You have yet to prove that God is a fictional character. We have done sonar readings in the Loch.
We didn't find God in there either.
Phat writes:
Perhaps, but absence of evidence does not conclude evidence of absense.
The same applies to the Loch Ness monster.
Mind you, we do have eyewitness accounts of the Loch Ness monster - not of God. There's not enough evidence to conclude that the Loch Ness monster is a real biological. There is no evidence that God is a real spook.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 280 by Phat, posted 02-09-2017 3:08 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 285 of 1864 (811151)
06-05-2017 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 284 by Davidjay
06-05-2017 11:54 AM


Re: Jesus wins again
Davidjay writes:
Jesus wins again
You're setting the bar too low.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by Davidjay, posted 06-05-2017 11:54 AM Davidjay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 286 by Davidjay, posted 06-05-2017 12:10 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 287 of 1864 (811160)
06-05-2017 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 286 by Davidjay
06-05-2017 12:10 PM


Re: Jesus wins again
You didn't address my post at all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by Davidjay, posted 06-05-2017 12:10 PM Davidjay has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 288 by Diomedes, posted 06-05-2017 12:53 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 296 of 1864 (811385)
06-07-2017 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 295 by Phat
06-06-2017 4:32 PM


Re: Re-Trinity
Phat writes:
I would prefer that God created the possibility of evil---actualized by a fallen angel...rather than incorporating the attributes of evil directly into a part of God.
At the risk of creating a false dichotomy: Either God created evil or He didn't create everything. Whether He does something "directly" or not is irrelevant. He pulled the trigger so you can't blame the bullet.
Phat writes:
Having evil as an intrinsic part of Gods nature makes Him no better than us.
It doesn't seem possible to create a God who is omnipotent and better than us at the same time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 295 by Phat, posted 06-06-2017 4:32 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 300 by Phat, posted 06-07-2017 4:20 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 301 of 1864 (811398)
06-07-2017 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 298 by NoNukes
06-07-2017 4:06 PM


Re: Re-Trinity
NoNukes writes:
How can good and free will both exist without evil, or not good existing?
There is evil that has nothing to do with free will: parasitic worms, for example.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 298 by NoNukes, posted 06-07-2017 4:06 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 303 by Phat, posted 06-07-2017 4:23 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied
 Message 310 by NoNukes, posted 06-07-2017 5:47 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 304 of 1864 (811401)
06-07-2017 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 300 by Phat
06-07-2017 4:20 PM


Re: Re-Trinity
Phat writes:
I would say he didnt create everything in that He did not foreknow our decisions.
So He's not omniscient.
Phat writes:
He may have created the gun but it is we who decide whether to pull the trigger...or in your case even acknowledge that He made the gun yet is necessary.
You're missing the point of the analogy. If He created the evil, He's responsible for the consequences.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 300 by Phat, posted 06-07-2017 4:20 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 306 by Phat, posted 06-07-2017 4:44 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 307 of 1864 (811409)
06-07-2017 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 306 by Phat
06-07-2017 4:44 PM


Re: Re-Trinity
Phat writes:
And if He never created evil, satan never would have had the opportunity for his own franchise.
You're shooting yourself in the foot.
There was never any need to create "Satan".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 306 by Phat, posted 06-07-2017 4:44 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 308 by Phat, posted 06-07-2017 4:55 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied
 Message 346 by Phat, posted 06-13-2017 7:26 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 313 of 1864 (811465)
06-08-2017 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 310 by NoNukes
06-07-2017 5:47 PM


Re: Re-Trinity
NoNukes writes:
Worms are not evil.
Of course they are. Evil results don't require evil intentions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 310 by NoNukes, posted 06-07-2017 5:47 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 314 by NoNukes, posted 06-08-2017 6:14 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 316 of 1864 (811595)
06-09-2017 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 314 by NoNukes
06-08-2017 6:14 PM


Re: Re-Trinity
NoNukes writes:
Evil requires intention, although the intention may not be to do evil.
Don't lose the context. We're talking about God here. Did God not know that parasitic worms would eat children's eyes?
NoNukes writes:
In your view, is a cheetah killing a gazelle evil?
No more so than a bunny eating a carrot is evil. But on the other hand, if somebody created a system which requires gazelles and carrots to suffer, that might be construed as evil.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 314 by NoNukes, posted 06-08-2017 6:14 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 317 by Davidjay, posted 06-09-2017 1:37 PM ringo has replied
 Message 318 by NoNukes, posted 06-09-2017 2:35 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 320 of 1864 (811671)
06-10-2017 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 318 by NoNukes
06-09-2017 2:35 PM


Re: Re-Trinity
NoNukes writes:
"Might be construed..."
Not going to debate statements like that.
The ONLY time to debate something is when it isn't black-and-white.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 318 by NoNukes, posted 06-09-2017 2:35 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 321 of 1864 (811672)
06-10-2017 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 317 by Davidjay
06-09-2017 1:37 PM


Re: Re-Trinity
Davidjay writes:
... the heathen or complainers seldom if ever try to do anything with their lives to alleviate the problems of this world or the diseases of this world or the suffering of this world.
The fact is that the heathen are as good or better at alleviating the suffering of this world.
Davidjay writes:
If they do, then they would be obeying the Lord in helping others, and would be blessed for it
So maybe you should stop mocking the people that God is blessing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 317 by Davidjay, posted 06-09-2017 1:37 PM Davidjay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 322 by Davidjay, posted 06-10-2017 12:03 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 323 of 1864 (811681)
06-10-2017 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 322 by Davidjay
06-10-2017 12:03 PM


Re: .Gods love eases suffering
Davidjay writes:
Gods people are workers not theorists, and deniers.
The denier here is you, denying the reality of science.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 322 by Davidjay, posted 06-10-2017 12:03 PM Davidjay has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 324 by Phat, posted 06-10-2017 5:35 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 327 of 1864 (811747)
06-11-2017 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 324 by Phat
06-10-2017 5:35 PM


Re: .Gods love eases suffering
Phat writes:
Some things cannot be proven or disproven through evidence alone.
Without evidence, they can not be "proven" at all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 324 by Phat, posted 06-10-2017 5:35 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 344 by Phat, posted 06-13-2017 6:52 PM ringo has replied

  
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