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Author Topic:   Whatever gets to take a break (suspension)
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 1 of 41 (80967)
01-26-2004 11:51 PM


The "Whatever" situation sure seems to be a muddled mess. I've decided to try to give things a break, by giving Whatever a suspension. Offhand, I think this will be for just 24 hours, but the plan may change.
Whatever - The admin mode of the moose species is prone to crankiness. I SUGGEST you don't try any end arounds, such as registering under a new name, or posting as a visitor. Such actions could very well get you banned. Take a break, and maybe put some thought into your posting form. Also, you may wish to monitor this topic, for further comments from the various people.
Comments from other members are welcome and encouraged,
Adminnemooseus

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Adminnemooseus, posted 01-27-2004 12:57 AM Adminnemooseus has not replied

  
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 2 of 41 (80979)
01-27-2004 12:57 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Adminnemooseus
01-26-2004 11:51 PM


Something I just noted, from the "Suspensions and Bannings" topic.
quote:
You can only get suspended or banned for violations of the Forum Guidelines and for failure to follow administrator or moderator requests, and usually only after several warnings.
I note that neither I, nor any other admin/moderator (as far as I know) had given Whatever any requests or warnings. None the less, I stand by my decision, that the suspension was needed.
Further comments on this situation still welcome and encouraged,
Adminnemooseus

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Adminnemooseus, posted 01-26-2004 11:51 PM Adminnemooseus has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by AdminAsgara, posted 01-27-2004 1:05 AM Adminnemooseus has not replied
 Message 4 by NosyNed, posted 01-27-2004 1:23 AM Adminnemooseus has not replied

  
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 5 of 41 (81094)
01-27-2004 11:39 AM


Bump
quote:
Further comments on this situation still welcome and encouraged
I'm serious about the above quoted. How do we treat Whatever? Does he need to be restricted to the "Free For All" forum? Does he need to be restricted to just one topic?
I think we do have to change how he was going about things.
Input desired,
Adminnemooseus

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Percy, posted 01-27-2004 11:49 AM Adminnemooseus has replied
 Message 7 by Dr Jack, posted 01-27-2004 11:51 AM Adminnemooseus has not replied
 Message 8 by PaulK, posted 01-27-2004 11:51 AM Adminnemooseus has not replied
 Message 11 by Loudmouth, posted 01-27-2004 1:34 PM Adminnemooseus has not replied

  
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 10 of 41 (81134)
01-27-2004 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Percy
01-27-2004 11:49 AM


Some of what was said elsewhere, that should have been in this topic
Stuff from the "Meert / Brown" topic (not necessarily complete quotes):
Admin (message 49):
quote:
This is an example of something you do a lot: get simple facts completely wrong. You also seem to make many elementary logic errors. Most posts to you seem to involve correcting your "facts" and your "logic".
No administrative action is indicated because I believe you're sincerely doing the best you can, but I would at least like to request that you periodically do a self-assessment and ask yourself whether the quality and content of your posts is improving over time, and whether you're becoming better able to research an issue (such as whether Walt Brown's site references the Bible) and come up with the right answer. After all, you won't be able to explain to others why current scientific views on evolution and geology are wrong if you don't know anything about them.
Admin (message 50):
quote:
Hi, All!
Looks like I was late to the party - Adminnemooseus suspended Whatever for 24 hours starting yesterday around noon ET. Whatever seems to have caught the attention of Adminnemooseus, NosyNed, Asgara and myself.
Whatever: your lack of knowledge and familiarity on these topics combined with your inability to contribute rationally is causing lots of frustration. We understand your obvious concern that the wrongheaded scientific ideas about evolution and geology must be opposed, but you should seriously question whether you're properly equipped to do this. Most people you're discussing with have university degrees *and* have read extensively about both evolution and Creationism.
I didn't realize the concern of moderators about you was so widespread, and so I'd like to very strongly suggest that when you return you stick to subjects you know something about. It would be a good idea to stay away from topics you're unfamiliar with, no matter how strongly you believe the evolutionists are wrong and want to help out by joining the fray. Consider the analogy of war: the last thing veterans want on the battlefield is raw, inexperienced recruits, because they're more likely to get everyone killed than anything else. On this discussion board, you're the raw recruit, and you're causing your side a lot of damage. If this were an actual battle your own side would shoot you just to save themselves.
Roxrkool (message 51):
quote:
I don't know Nosy. Sometimes, I get the feeling Whatever is just playing everyone. He/she never gets annoyed - EVER! Can someone actually be that... passive?
He/she acknowledges a wrong and then nonchalantly slides over to the next topic as if being shown he/she is wrong over and over again is an everyday occurrence. A few posts later, states the exact same thing that was shown to be wrong previously.
I can't remember if someone already made the analogy, but discussing science with Whatever is like trying to pick jello up with chop sticks.
NosyNed (message 52):
quote:
Actually, I decided awhile ago that ignoring him was the right thing to do. One way or the other it is a waste of time to try to teach him a thing. I don't care what the "real" reason for that is.
Eta Carinae (message 53):
quote:
Whatever is not genuine - he is playing with you guys.
I have caught statements from him that contradicted other things he has said.
I am 100% convinced he is not playing true from any position.
He may not even be anti-evolution.
There is/was "Whatever" behavior commentary happening all over the place. Please consolidate it into this topic.
You people can think and evaluate this situation yourselves (despite the sometimes indications that you need a moderator to think for you). I will try to get back further, later, but I wanted to get this up now.
BTW, the suspension happened at about midnight, 1/26/2004 end of day. My inclination is NOT to lift it, until we have some sort of plan in place.
Whatever is certainly welcome to e-mail Admin, and discuss the situation with him.
Adminnemooseus

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Percy, posted 01-27-2004 11:49 AM Percy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by JonF, posted 01-27-2004 1:56 PM Adminnemooseus has replied
 Message 13 by Trixie, posted 01-27-2004 4:10 PM Adminnemooseus has not replied

  
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 14 of 41 (81192)
01-27-2004 4:35 PM


Related topics?
For whatever it's worth, the following are some of the other topics that I have started, concerning some of my moderator actions:
Wise has been suspended
Syamsu suspended
Booboocruise files, The
People may also be interested in tapping into the index page of the "Announcements" forum, and the index page of the "Suggestions" forum. Note that you may need to select a higher "select number of topics", an go to a second (or more) pages, to see all the possibilities.
Adminnemooseus

  
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 15 of 41 (81286)
01-28-2004 12:32 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by JonF
01-27-2004 1:56 PM


Extending suspension at least another 24 hours
Jon said much, of the tricks of trying to moderate this thing. Right now, I'll add a few random comments.
I think that Whatever, in part, may be reminiscent of some of the "unique viewpoint" posters, that we've had in the past. The problem is, when that "unique viewpoint" ends up getting shoved into many topics.
Whatever was the center of the problem, but s/he wasn't the whole of the problem. The Whatever problem wouldn't have been as bad, if other members hadn't been so generous in supplying to the feedback loop. Not to be calling Whatever a troll, but had s/he been one, would much of the debate have been deemed "feeding the troll"?
As I believe it may have been noted in previous messages above, it seems that topic drift, topic cross-pollination, and general topic chaos, along with general crankiness, has been running high lately.
It is tough for the moderators to try to track the many topics and messages that are happening, and to try to maintain a sense of context of those messages. And some topics end up not being of interest to any of the moderators. I guess we hope that someone else is watching, and if note, topics can run bad for quite a while before the enforcer catches on.
I'm going to extend the suspension for at least another 24 hours, for further input, and to get a feel for how we'll handle the return of Whatever. My instinct tells me, that lifting the suspension right now will only result in picking up the situation where it was left off.
Enough for now - Also please see my current avatar,
Adminnemooseus

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by JonF, posted 01-27-2004 1:56 PM JonF has not replied

  
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 16 of 41 (81343)
01-28-2004 12:53 PM


Bump
I would still like to see more feedback from the various people. I think we need a fairly unified plan in place, before Whatever returns to active poster status.
On a related note pertaining to topic quality control, I point out this message, found elsewhere.
Adminnemooseus

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by mark24, posted 01-28-2004 1:14 PM Adminnemooseus has replied
 Message 18 by NosyNed, posted 01-28-2004 1:15 PM Adminnemooseus has not replied

  
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 19 of 41 (81348)
01-28-2004 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by mark24
01-28-2004 1:14 PM


Re: Bump
quote:
I think Whatever should be allowed back in. I don't think he should've been banned outright in the first place. If the plan was to allow a cool off period then maybe the relevant threads should've been blocked for a day or so with a warning to Whatever.
By "blocking of relevant threads", I asume you me by means of a bunch of admin guidance messages. I think these would have just gotten lost in the pile and/or flat out ignored. A more extreme blocking, would be to have temporarily closed a bunch of topics. That sure seems to be very overkill. I think the only practical way to cool Whatever's jets, was the suspension.
quote:
He also needs to read replies thouroughly before responding. I lost count of how many times I had to reiterate the same Cambrian-explosion-wasn't-affected-by-the-flood point before the penny finally dropped.
I think part of the problem is that the situation(s) were set up, that Whatever received many (redundant?) poundings from many sources. Even if s/he were receptive to enlightenment, these pounding very well might be more inclined to cause numbness.
If and when Whatever returns, I think the opposing side needs to show much restraint, to avoid the "great pilling on".
One aspect of the Whatever nature that I note, from the Argon discussions, is that s/he works that grey area between total giberish and coherence. There is enough partial continuity in the statements, that they can't be written off as total babble.
I expect that I'll lift the suspension at about midnight tonight.
Further feedback still welcome and encouraged,
Adminnemooseus

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by mark24, posted 01-28-2004 1:14 PM mark24 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by PaulK, posted 01-28-2004 5:45 PM Adminnemooseus has not replied

  
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 24 of 41 (81418)
01-29-2004 12:13 AM


Whatever's suspension lifted
Lifting Whatever's suspension.
I encourage Whatever to read the previous postings of this topic, if not already done.
I encourage Whatever to show restraint in his postings. Likewise (probably even more), I encourage restraint by those directing postings towards Whatever. Let's not pile on.
Everyone, be nice to each other. Be nice to Whatever - I might just be giving him a little extra protection.
Adminnemooseus

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by NosyNed, posted 01-31-2004 8:21 PM Adminnemooseus has not replied

  
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 29 of 41 (147983)
10-07-2004 2:09 AM


Whatever suspended again
Also see Whatever suspended at the "Which religion's creation story should be taught".
Adminnemooseus

Comments on moderation procedures (or wish to respond to admin messages)? - Go to
Change in Moderation?
or
Thread Reopen Requests
or
Considerations of topic promotions from the Proposed New Topics forum

  
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 34 of 41 (148125)
10-07-2004 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Admin
10-07-2004 10:05 AM


The "Debate Bootcamp" forum
quote:
PS: I think restriction to the Debate Bootcamp forum among the Main Topic forums would also have been an acceptable alternative, as it would allow Whatever to discuss his situation in the Side Order forums instead of just with me via email.
Agree, BUT -
I don't think the "Debate Bootcamp" forum is yet properly set up. As we have been discussing in the "Private Admin Forum", I think the "Free For All" forum should be preserved under that name, albeit closed to any new topics. I thought we (myself, you, and AdminNosy) were in agreement on that, but you just renamed the FFA to "Debate Bootcamp" anyway.
As is, the "Debate Bootcamp" still contains all the old FFA topics. Plenty of places for Whatever to run amuck.
I feel strongly that the "Debate Bootcamp" needs to be an entirely new forum.
Adminnemooseus
And in a Whatever like PS: Whatever's debate style can also found in the various discussions of the current Presidental campaign. As he and the non-admin mode (minnemooseus) hold polar opposite political positions, I felt I was on shakey ground in squashing his participation. But it did seem to be blatantly obvious that Whatever was unable or unwilling to carry on rational discussion. Someone needed to act - So I did.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Admin, posted 10-07-2004 10:05 AM Admin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by AdminNosy, posted 10-07-2004 3:17 PM Adminnemooseus has not replied

  
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