Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,806 Year: 3,063/9,624 Month: 908/1,588 Week: 91/223 Day: 2/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Brexit - Should they stay or should they go?
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 995
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


Message 226 of 887 (811480)
06-08-2017 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 225 by Diomedes
06-05-2017 1:22 PM


UK Election Results
Just started watching the early exit polling and it appears to show that the Conservatives will not be reaching the necessary number of seats for a majority.
The other big shocker is the SNP is projected to lose a huge number of seats in Scotland.
Latest details are here:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/...7c-42ab5745db2e_story.html
Honestly a bit mystifying at this stage. Seems like no election is easy to predict anymore. Wonder if Theresa May will survive as leader of the Conservatives if this goes south for her.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 225 by Diomedes, posted 06-05-2017 1:22 PM Diomedes has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by Tusko, posted 06-08-2017 7:22 PM Diomedes has replied

  
Tusko
Member (Idle past 100 days)
Posts: 615
From: London, UK
Joined: 10-01-2004


Message 227 of 887 (811495)
06-08-2017 7:22 PM
Reply to: Message 226 by Diomedes
06-08-2017 6:01 PM


Re: UK Election Results
Maybe the youth vote actually turned up this time. It is still very early though, and there's a distinct possibility of this turning into Conservative gains when the night is through. Fascinating though.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by Diomedes, posted 06-08-2017 6:01 PM Diomedes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 228 by Diomedes, posted 06-08-2017 10:39 PM Tusko has not replied

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 995
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


Message 228 of 887 (811514)
06-08-2017 10:39 PM
Reply to: Message 227 by Tusko
06-08-2017 7:22 PM


Re: UK Election Results
Maybe the youth vote actually turned up this time.
Ironically, I just heard on Bloomberg that their data shows that the youth turnout was higher this time around.
Looking at projections now, it still shows the Conservatives losing their majority. But still time for a turnaround.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by Tusko, posted 06-08-2017 7:22 PM Tusko has not replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member (Idle past 737 days)
Posts: 2236
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 229 of 887 (811519)
06-08-2017 11:22 PM


Labor claims that it will support the Exit.
Conservatives loosing an outright majority might not mean too much really. I don't know.

Replies to this message:
 Message 230 by caffeine, posted 06-09-2017 5:18 AM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1024 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 230 of 887 (811534)
06-09-2017 5:18 AM
Reply to: Message 229 by LamarkNewAge
06-08-2017 11:22 PM


Re: Labor claims that it will support the Exit.
Conservatives loosing an outright majority might not mean too much really. I don't know.
Brexit, whilst important, is not the only thing that the British government and Parliament have to do with their time. The loss of a Tory majority most emphatically means something even if Britain still leaves the EU.
The truly horrifying thought here, though, is the prospect that there will still be a Tory government, but one reliant for its survival on the DUP. Not sure how familiar they are across the pond, but you will have come across the DUP on this forum. Faith posted a couple of rants about the Pope being the antichrist from Ian Paisley, the violent, hateful bigot who founded the party. Not a thought to relish.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by LamarkNewAge, posted 06-08-2017 11:22 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 231 by jar, posted 06-09-2017 7:52 AM caffeine has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 231 of 887 (811547)
06-09-2017 7:52 AM
Reply to: Message 230 by caffeine
06-09-2017 5:18 AM


Re: Labor claims that it will support the Exit.
And it seems that it will be a Conservative/Democratic Union Party government.
I really doubt that was what the people of the UK had in mind.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by caffeine, posted 06-09-2017 5:18 AM caffeine has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 232 by Tangle, posted 06-09-2017 8:01 AM jar has not replied
 Message 233 by Diomedes, posted 06-09-2017 8:18 AM jar has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 232 of 887 (811551)
06-09-2017 8:01 AM
Reply to: Message 231 by jar
06-09-2017 7:52 AM


Re: Labor claims that it will support the Exit.
God only knows what was on our minds. My own take on it is the the youth vote absented itself at the Brexit vote, noticed that they'd got something they didn't want and turned out in force at the election to attempt to reverse it or at least get something they approve of.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 231 by jar, posted 06-09-2017 7:52 AM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 234 by caffeine, posted 06-09-2017 8:28 AM Tangle has not replied
 Message 236 by Diomedes, posted 06-09-2017 9:23 AM Tangle has not replied

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 995
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


Message 233 of 887 (811555)
06-09-2017 8:18 AM
Reply to: Message 231 by jar
06-09-2017 7:52 AM


Re: Labor claims that it will support the Exit.
And it seems that it will be a Conservative/Democratic Union Party government.
I really doubt that was what the people of the UK had in mind.
That does appear likely with the outcome of the election. I don't know much about the party, but it appears they are from the same camp as UKIP. Euro-skeptics and also reminiscent of the Tea Party on this side of the Atlantic.
I haven't been privy to the machinations of this election, but I have to admit I am quite surprised by the outcome. I honestly don't know why there was such a backlash against May and the Conservatives when polls showed them with a commanding lead just six weeks ago. Many pundits said she ran a terrible campaign (Hillary 2.0?) but I would have thought things like the recent attacks in England would have actually galvanized her position.
And what happened to the SNP? They were slaughtered last night.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 231 by jar, posted 06-09-2017 7:52 AM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 235 by caffeine, posted 06-09-2017 8:38 AM Diomedes has not replied

  
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1024 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 234 of 887 (811557)
06-09-2017 8:28 AM
Reply to: Message 232 by Tangle
06-09-2017 8:01 AM


Re: Labor claims that it will support the Exit.
God only knows what was on our minds. My own take on it is the the youth vote absented itself at the Brexit vote, noticed that they'd got something they didn't want and turned out in force at the election to attempt to reverse it or at least get something they approve of.
Theres nothing much mysterious going on. UKIP stood down in a lot of the country; and lost votes where they did since a lot of people feel that battle is now won. There is no need to vote for a single issue party any more. However, those votes did not all flow too the Tories - it's worth remembering that a lot of the strongest Leave votes were in staunchly Labour areas; and much of this support went back to Labour - especially now it's a Labour with a left-wing platform that people see as a genuine alternative.
Labour has energised a lot of support amongst young people, but also amongst the traditional left. You can see this clearly in unshakeable Labour strongholds like Merseyside. The Tories would sometimes come third, fourth or even fifth in the Liverpool constituencies, but this time finished second in all of them. This is not just because they increased their vote share (although they did), but because the vote share of the smaller parties plummeted. A lot of left-leaning voters who used to vote Green, Liberal or for minor socialist parties, since they felt the major parties had little to offer, have flocked back to Labour now they are presenting themselves as a genuine leftwing alternative.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by Tangle, posted 06-09-2017 8:01 AM Tangle has not replied

  
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1024 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 235 of 887 (811559)
06-09-2017 8:38 AM
Reply to: Message 233 by Diomedes
06-09-2017 8:18 AM


Re: Labor claims that it will support the Exit.
And what happened to the SNP? They were slaughtered last night.
In both number of votes and number of seats, this was the second most successful election in the history of the SNP. It only looks like a slaughter because you're comparing it to 2015 - the most successful ever election for the SNP.
I think part of the swing against them comes from people who look on independence for Scotland differently post-Brexit. If Scotland became an independent state but both Scotland and the rest of the UK were EU members; then Scottish and British citizens would be guaranteed the right to move freely across the border and live and work on either side without restrictions. There is no guarantee that would be the case if the UK leaves the EU.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by Diomedes, posted 06-09-2017 8:18 AM Diomedes has not replied

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 995
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


Message 236 of 887 (811561)
06-09-2017 9:23 AM
Reply to: Message 232 by Tangle
06-09-2017 8:01 AM


Re: Labor claims that it will support the Exit.
I am curious what effect this will now have on Brexit negotiations. The whole premise behind this snap election was that May would have an even larger majority at her back when entering negotiations. Now, she faces the prospect of struggling to form a coalition and having a diminished bargaining position.
The tentative date for Brexit negotiations to start is June 19th. Only ten days away. She will have to scramble to get that coalition formed. But even so, the EU negotiators are probably now seeing blood in the water and the hand tipped in their favor.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by Tangle, posted 06-09-2017 8:01 AM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 237 by Diomedes, posted 12-04-2017 2:48 PM Diomedes has replied

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 995
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


Message 237 of 887 (824871)
12-04-2017 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 236 by Diomedes
06-09-2017 9:23 AM


Will Ireland derail Brexit?
Latest Brexit talks are still hitting a wall despite original optimism about a deal.
Looks like the border between Northern Ireland and the Republican of Ireland is turning into quite a stickler point:
Bloomberg - Are you a robot?
quote:
London and Brussels failed to clinch a long-sought breakthrough on Brexit after a series of dramatic twists that saw a tentative deal derailed by the delicate question of the Irish border.
It was not possible to reach a complete agreement today, European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker told reporters as glum negotiators looked on. Talks will resume this week and he’s confident there will be a agreement that paves the way for trade talks to begin.
This is definitely turning into quite the quagmire.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 236 by Diomedes, posted 06-09-2017 9:23 AM Diomedes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 238 by PaulK, posted 12-04-2017 3:33 PM Diomedes has not replied
 Message 245 by Diomedes, posted 02-28-2018 2:48 PM Diomedes has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 238 of 887 (824872)
12-04-2017 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 237 by Diomedes
12-04-2017 2:48 PM


Re: Will Ireland derail Brexit?
It’s more the DUP than the Irish government. It’s pretty obvious that trying to make the Irish border into a hard border is a bad idea, even if the Irish would accept it. But that means that either Britain remains in the Customs Union or puts the border into the Irish Sea, leaving NI in the Customs Union. The Brexiteers won’t accept the first, the DUP won’t accept the second, and the Irish will veto the deal if a hard border isn’t ruled out.
Theresa May must really be regretting calling the last General Election.
Brexit was always a mess. The Irish border was always a problem. It’s just become really obvious now, and the DUP are ruling out what seems to be the only workable solution.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 237 by Diomedes, posted 12-04-2017 2:48 PM Diomedes has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 239 by Tangle, posted 12-04-2017 4:14 PM PaulK has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 239 of 887 (824876)
12-04-2017 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 238 by PaulK
12-04-2017 3:33 PM


Re: Will Ireland derail Brexit?
With a bit of luck, they'll say, 'bugger it, it's too hard' and call it off.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by PaulK, posted 12-04-2017 3:33 PM PaulK has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 240 by jar, posted 12-04-2017 4:27 PM Tangle has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 240 of 887 (824880)
12-04-2017 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 239 by Tangle
12-04-2017 4:14 PM


Re: Will Ireland derail Brexit?
Can they? Isn't there a deadline date and are there provisions for what happens if the deadlines are not met?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by Tangle, posted 12-04-2017 4:14 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 241 by PaulK, posted 12-04-2017 4:38 PM jar has seen this message but not replied
 Message 242 by Tangle, posted 12-04-2017 5:00 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024