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Author | Topic: Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dredge Member (Idle past 102 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Taq writes:
Creationists believe that such evidence exists. I didn't see how the four faces on Mount Rushmore were brought into existence, but I can be secure in my deduction that humans must have done it.
Creationists just can't seem to grasp the simple concept that they need positive evidence that God did create something.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 102 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
I didn't say Talk Origins is an atheist web site; it is devoted to promoting the science of evolution, which I interpret as atheist theology. If Talk Origins mentioned somewhere that it is devoted to promoting atheism, then I would say it is an atheist site. Talk Origins presents itself as philosophically neutral, but I'll bet it is run almost-exclusively by atheists.
BioLogos, on the other hand, endorses evolution, but also states that it endorses Christianity. So BioLogos is not philosophically neutral; it's a Christian web site (albeit, in error).
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Dredge Member (Idle past 102 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Taq writes:
Right. You have yet to show that evolution requires an increase in genetic information.For example, compare the human and chimp genomes. Can you show us how those genomes differ in information content? Probably not, right? But since a human is more functionally complex than a chimp, it stands to reason that building a human would require more genetic information that building a chimp. Think of the instruction manual to build a mouse trap verses the instruction manual to build a car. Which instruction manual would contain more information? Edited by Dredge, : No reason given. Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2134 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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But since a human is more functionally complex than a chimp, it stands to reason that building a human would require more genetic information that building a chimp. But chimps can do a lot of things humans can't, so there is more "genetic information" around there somewhere to account for those functions. Your job is to quantify "genetic information" in some manner that accounts for both differences and similarities, and produces a reliable total that can be cross-compared.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 102 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Tangle writes:
I don't recall rejecting science. I love science!
So you believe all that nonsense but reject science? What kind of lunacy is that? Transubstantiation - the belief that bread and wine are changed into flesh and blood; not figuratively but quite literally, by a chap in a funny hat lifting it above his head.
It's called faith. I have it and you don't. "Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you have no life in you." - John 6:53.Really? And there's an old saying: Truth is stranger than fiction.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 102 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Taq writes:
I do understand the basics. I don't have to have a doctorate in mathematics to know that 1+1 don't add up to 3. Plus there is my intuition for smelling b.s.
How can you say they are wrong when you don't even understand the most basic science that undergirds the theory of evolution?
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Dredge Member (Idle past 102 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Ringo writes:
Consensus is not an infallible guide to truth. Do you (think) I might be retarded? every Christian who knows anything about evolution accepts it. Why don't you try to figure out why YOU'RE wrong? Nevertheless, the Holy Spirit won't allow me to accept evolution. "What harmony is there between Christ and Belial?" - 2Corinthians 6:15 Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 102 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Coyote writes:
You're probably thinking of space shuttles and the Large Hadron Collider. No, I think you'll find that humans built those machines, not chimps. But chimps can do a lot of things humans can't, so there is more "genetic information" around there somewhere to account for those functions. What can chimps do that humans can't? My fragile, egg-shell mind can't think of anything.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2134 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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What can chimps do that humans can't? My fragile, egg-shell mind can't think of anything. Short term memory:Chimps Have Better Short-term Memory Than Humans | Live Science Strategic reasoning:Chimps Are Better at Strategic Reasoning Than Humans Are Strength and speed:Chimpanzees vs. Humans: Sizing Up Their Strength - ABC News Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5952 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
I didn't say Talk Origins is an atheist web site; ... Sorry, but your own words contradict that claim; again: In Message 483:
CRR writes: Ah, the ever unreliable Talk Origins. I wouldn't worry about anything from that discredited atheist web site. You replied to him in Message 487:
Dredge writes: Talk Origins = Talk Atheist Theology = Talk Satanic Fairy Tale So then, yes you did call it "atheist" and then upped the ante with "Satanic". That is despite the fact that CRR said it first, because you were agreeing with him and went on to elaborate further. Then in Message 532 you elaborated further:
Dredge writes: Evolution is an atheist invention, so any site dedicated to evolution is likely to be dominated by atheists. That begged the question of why you thought that. I think we both know that you got that from your creationist sources that are lying to you. However, you must have gone through some kind of reasoning it out to come to accept that. So I asked for that reasoning, but instead you beg yet another question:
... it is devoted to promoting the science of evolution, which I interpret as atheist theology. "atheist theology"? Evolution, which you yourself identify as being science, is not a theology. While some people may choose to use it (or even their misconceptions about it just as you appear to be doing) in their theology, that does not make evolution itself a theology. As you yourself said, it is science. Please explain what you are talking about and present your reasoning that led you to that conclusion. It may help if you recognize the difference between the science of evolution and creationists' "evolution model" -- the two couldn't be more dissimilar. I suppose that you believe that evolution and creation are in conflict. In reality, there is nothing about the science of evolution which contradicts the idea of Divine Creation. It is only when you choose to misconstrue both evolution and creation that you end up creating conflict where none should exist.
So BioLogos is not philosophically neutral; it's a Christian web site (albeit, in error). Eye, meet beam.
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5952 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
Right. But since a human is more functionally complex than a chimp, it stands to reason that building a human would require more genetic information that building a chimp. Try this line of reasoning. What do the other members of Hominidae have that humans do not have? Such as physical characteristics. Such as that massive jaw. Our jaws are puny in comparison. Where else in Hominidae do we see puny jaws and flat faces such as our own? In the infants and young of the other members of Hominidae. As they mature, their genes for that jaw are expressed. Not so in humans. Our jaws remain puny and our faces remain flat, like an infant ape's. We have lost something there, either the genes for developing a mature ape jaw and face or the triggers to express those mature traits. So then wouldn't you say that in respect to that trait, the chimp genome is more complex than the human one? How many more traits are like that? OBTW, how intelligent are the other Hominidae? I trust that you have heard of Hanabiko, "fireworks girl" (more literally, "flower fire girl"). She's better known as Koko. Since she has learned sign language, they have been able to administer intelligence tests to her. The results vary from an IQ of 80 to an IQ of 90. The lower score is attributed to cultural bias, or rather species bias -- when given options of where to go when it starts raining, she chose the tree instead of the house. So then, really, how different are we and in what ways? I think that your approach to that question may be a little too facile.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9512 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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Dredge writes: I don't recall rejecting science. I love science! You're very confused aren't you? You reject evolution; evolution is science. You tell us that you don't know how old the earth is; science does. You say that the bread and wine are changed every day by priests into real flesh and real blood - literally; science says that they are not. You reject science when it contradicts your beliefs, that's rejecting science.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Pressie Member Posts: 2103 From: Pretoria, SA Joined: |
Dredge writes: I don't believe that Spooks did it. Just naturally occurring humans. No Spooks involved. That's my deduction. Creationists believe that such evidence exists. I didn't see how the four faces on Mount Rushmore were brought into existence, but I can be secure in my deduction that humans must have done it. Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.
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Pressie Member Posts: 2103 From: Pretoria, SA Joined: |
Dredge writes: I disagree. A Chimp is far more functionally complex than a human. But since a human is more functionally complex than a chimp.... Edited by Pressie, : No reason given. Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.
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JonF Member (Idle past 196 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
I didn't say Talk Origins is an atheist web site quote: Your claims are recorded. Don't lie about them.
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