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Author Topic:   The TRVE history of the Flood...
CRR
Member (Idle past 318 days)
Posts: 579
From: Australia
Joined: 10-19-2016


Message 1246 of 1352 (813607)
06-29-2017 8:17 AM
Reply to: Message 1245 by Pressie
06-29-2017 7:14 AM


Re: Flood waters receeded into depths
How about a meteorologist with a Masters Science degree in Atmospheric Science from the University of Washington writing about the ice age?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1245 by Pressie, posted 06-29-2017 7:14 AM Pressie has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1247 by RAZD, posted 06-29-2017 8:28 AM CRR has responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19756
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 1247 of 1352 (813610)
06-29-2017 8:28 AM
Reply to: Message 1246 by CRR
06-29-2017 8:17 AM


Re: Flood waters receeded into depths
How about a meteorologist with a Masters Science degree in Atmospheric Science from the University of Washington writing about the ice age?

Which one?

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 1246 by CRR, posted 06-29-2017 8:17 AM CRR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1248 by CRR, posted 06-30-2017 4:07 AM RAZD has responded

  
CRR
Member (Idle past 318 days)
Posts: 579
From: Australia
Joined: 10-19-2016


Message 1248 of 1352 (813713)
06-30-2017 4:07 AM
Reply to: Message 1247 by RAZD
06-29-2017 8:28 AM


Post Flood Ice Age
Michael J. Oard, a meteorologist with a Masters Science degree in Atmospheric Science from the University of Washington writing about the ice age

What caused the Ice Age?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1247 by RAZD, posted 06-29-2017 8:28 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1249 by Pressie, posted 06-30-2017 7:11 AM CRR has not yet responded
 Message 1250 by Tangle, posted 06-30-2017 7:30 AM CRR has not yet responded
 Message 1251 by RAZD, posted 06-30-2017 8:21 AM CRR has responded
 Message 1252 by Pollux, posted 06-30-2017 8:02 PM CRR has responded
 Message 1257 by 14174dm, posted 07-01-2017 5:01 PM CRR has not yet responded

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1998
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 1249 of 1352 (813718)
06-30-2017 7:11 AM
Reply to: Message 1248 by CRR
06-30-2017 4:07 AM


Re: Post Flood Ice Age
I'd actually laugh at a meteorologist with a Masters Degree in Atmospheric Science writing about 'the ice age'.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1248 by CRR, posted 06-30-2017 4:07 AM CRR has not yet responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6671
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 1250 of 1352 (813720)
06-30-2017 7:30 AM
Reply to: Message 1248 by CRR
06-30-2017 4:07 AM


Re: Post Flood Ice Age
quote:
Michael has a Masters Science degree in Atmospheric Science from the University of Washington and is now retired after working as a meteorologist with the US National Weather Service for 30 years. He has researched and speaks on the compelling evidence for Noah’s Flood and the Ice Age that followed, and how the incredible wooly mammoth connects to biblical history.

Michael has published many papers in his field in widely recognised journals and has written An Ice Age Caused by the Genesis Flood, Ancient Ice Ages or Gigantic Submarine Landslides?, The Missoula Flood Controversy and the Genesis Flood and The Frozen Record. He is also author of Frozen in Time, The Weather Book and Life in the Great Ice Age.

He serves on the board of the Creation Research Society, USA and lives in Montana.


Are you ever going to bring us a respected scientist in a relevant field that is not also a fundy creationist?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member
Posts: 19756
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 1251 of 1352 (813725)
06-30-2017 8:21 AM
Reply to: Message 1248 by CRR
06-30-2017 4:07 AM


Re: Post Flood Ice Age
Michael J. Oard, a meteorologist with a Masters Science degree in Atmospheric Science from the University of Washington writing about the ice age

What caused the Ice Age?

You repeat you link, I repeat my question, because your link does not answer it properly (it lies).

quote:
An An ice age is a period of long-term reduction in the temperature of Earth's surface and atmosphere, resulting in the presence or expansion of continental and polar ice sheets and alpine glaciers. Within a long-term ice age, individual pulses of cold climate are termed "glacial periods" (or alternatively "glacials" or "glaciations" or colloquially as "ice age"), and intermittent warm periods are called "interglacials". In the terminology of glaciology, ice age implies the presence of extensive ice sheets in both northern and southern hemispheres.[1]

There are three main types of evidence for ice ages: geological, chemical, and paleontological. ...

Geological evidence for ice ages comes in various forms, including rock scouring and scratching, glacial moraines, drumlins, valley cutting, and the deposition of till or tillites and glacial erratics. Successive glaciations tend to distort and erase the geological evidence, making it difficult to interpret. ...

The chemical evidence mainly consists of variations in the ratios of isotopes in fossils present in sediments and sedimentary rocks and ocean sediment cores. For the most recent glacial periods ice cores provide climate proxies from their ice, and atmospheric samples from included bubbles of air.

The paleontological evidence consists of changes in the geographical distribution of fossils. During a glacial period cold-adapted organisms spread into lower latitudes, and organisms that prefer warmer conditions become extinct or are squeezed into lower latitudes. ...

There have been at least five major ice ages in the earth's past (the Huronian, Cryogenian, Andean-Saharan, Karoo Ice Age and the Quaternary glaciation). Outside these ages, the Earth seems to have been ice-free even in high latitudes.[31][32]

Rocks from the earliest well established ice age, called the Huronian, formed around 2.4 to 2.1 Ga (billion years) ago during the early Proterozoic Eon. ...

The next well-documented ice age, and probably the most severe of the last billion years, occurred from 850 to 630 million years ago (the Cryogenian period) and may have produced a Snowball Earth in which glacial ice sheets reached the equator,[33] ...

The Andean-Saharan occurred from 460 to 420 million years ago, during the Late Ordovician and the Silurian period.

The evolution of land plants at the onset of the Devonian period caused a long term increase in planetary oxygen levels and reduction of CO2 levels, which resulted in the Karoo Ice Age. ...

The current ice age, the Pliocene-Quaternary glaciation, started about 2.58 million years ago during the late Pliocene, when the spread of ice sheets in the Northern Hemisphere began. Since then, the world has seen cycles of glaciation with ice sheets advancing and retreating on 40,000- and 100,000-year time scales called glacial periods, glacials or glacial advances, and interglacial periods, interglacials or glacial retreats. The earth is currently in an interglacial, and the last glacial period ended about 10,000 years ago. All that remains of the continental ice sheets are the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets and smaller glaciers such as on Baffin Island.

Ice ages can be further divided by location and time; for example, the names Riss (180,000–130,000 years bp) and Würm (70,000–10,000 years bp) refer specifically to glaciation in the Alpine region. The maximum extent of the ice is not maintained for the full interval. The scouring action of each glaciation tends to remove most of the evidence of prior ice sheets almost completely, except in regions where the later sheet does not achieve full coverage.


At least 5 major ice ages. With millions of years between them.

Also see General Overview of the Ice Ages.

Curiously, on a side note the ice cores dating in Antarctica are currently reaching ~1 million years of accumulated layers of ice. Age Correlations and An Old Earth, Version 2 No 1, Message 8:

quote:
http://www.awi-bremerhaven.de/...m05-1.hj/050113EPICA-e.html (3)

quote:
The drilling has been very successful and has been followed by a wide community of ice and climate researchers. The 70 meters of ice drilled this season completes a long venture started in 1996. The core has already led to the release in the scientific journal 'Nature' last June of a 740,000-year record of Antarctic climate. The new piece of core will extend the record to an age estimated to be more than 900.000 years old. This is the oldest ice that has been recovered from deep ice cores. The basal ice has ice crystals, some bigger than 40 centimetres and we have observed many inclusions of brown/reddish material mainly between the big ice crystals.

Minimum age of the earth >900,000 years based on this data


In addition, ice ages are known to transgress and regress over periods of thousands of years, and this is documented in the ice cores for the last ice age.

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : .


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1248 by CRR, posted 06-30-2017 4:07 AM CRR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1271 by CRR, posted 07-08-2017 4:34 AM RAZD has responded

  
Pollux
Member
Posts: 240
Joined: 11-13-2011


(1)
Message 1252 of 1352 (813806)
06-30-2017 8:02 PM
Reply to: Message 1248 by CRR
06-30-2017 4:07 AM


Re: Post Flood Ice Age
There is abundant evidence against a single post-flood Ice Age, and against catastrophic plate tectonics.

About 100 years ago the geologist Du Toit could not make sense of the distribution of fossils and the direction of movement of the Permian ice sheets in South America and Africa. He heard of the ideas of Wegener for moving continents and realised putting them together made a good fit.
This showed that the Ice Age occurred BEFORE the continents parted.

Cores from the ocean floor near the coast of Spain gives an example of other evidence. Layers of fine silt with forest pollens alternate with ones of coarse deposit and grass pollens. This is because under warm conditions the core site is far from the shore so only fine silt from the nearby rivers reach it, and a warm forest grows on the land.

Under Ice Age conditions, lower sea level means the core is close to the shore so heavier sediment is still reaching it, and cool grassland is on shore.

Even without absolute age determinations, a significant time is required for many cycles of warm and cool cycles to occur.

As RAZD indicated, using time determinations cycles of 23,000, 40,000, 100,000, and 400,000 years can be seen. For many years it was not clear why the 100,000 year cycle occurred, but it is now resolved. The fact that the problem was openly discussed is an indication that what was being reported was true, and not due to a long age mindset.

As an aside, Noah did not seem to notice the Ice Age when he planted his vineyard


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1248 by CRR, posted 06-30-2017 4:07 AM CRR has responded

Replies to this message:
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ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 1253 of 1352 (813821)
07-01-2017 1:53 AM
Reply to: Message 1212 by kjsimons
06-27-2017 12:15 PM


Re: Flood waters receeded into depths
Hi kjsimons,

kjsimons writes:

Are you for real? Plate tectonics is not a controversial theory and the continents are all still on the move. Europe and North America are moving away from each other at about an inch a year, we can and do measure these things. Do you deny that continents are still moving?

Well I know the land mass was all in one place at one time Genesis 1:9 tells me that.

Genesis 10:25 tells me that in the days of Peleg the earth was divided.

The continents are still moving but they are slowing down.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1212 by kjsimons, posted 06-27-2017 12:15 PM kjsimons has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1254 by Pollux, posted 07-01-2017 2:59 AM ICANT has acknowledged this reply
 Message 1255 by Pollux, posted 07-01-2017 3:16 AM ICANT has responded
 Message 1256 by edge, posted 07-01-2017 2:53 PM ICANT has responded
 Message 1265 by Pressie, posted 07-03-2017 4:09 AM ICANT has not yet responded

    
Pollux
Member
Posts: 240
Joined: 11-13-2011


(2)
Message 1254 of 1352 (813822)
07-01-2017 2:59 AM
Reply to: Message 1253 by ICANT
07-01-2017 1:53 AM


Re: Plate tectonics
There are chains of sea-mounts and islands in the oceans with probably the best known the Hawaiian-Emperor sea-mounts which are formed as a tectonic plate moves over a hot spot. The magma from the hot spot builds up an undersea mountain which will break the surface if it gets big enough.
As the plate moves it carries the mount away, that volcano dies and a new one forms over the hot spot. The weight of the mount gradually causes the ocean crust to sag and the mount sinks, often with a growth of coral if it were high enough.

RM dating of these sea-mount chains shows an increase in age as you move away from the hot spot, and this increase is consistent with the expected age with the rate of plate movement.

The YEC idea of catastrophic plate tectonics (CPT) and accelerated RM decay during the Flood requires the two processes to amazingly occur in step to make it look as though it took a long time.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1253 by ICANT, posted 07-01-2017 1:53 AM ICANT has acknowledged this reply

    
Pollux
Member
Posts: 240
Joined: 11-13-2011


(3)
Message 1255 of 1352 (813824)
07-01-2017 3:16 AM
Reply to: Message 1253 by ICANT
07-01-2017 1:53 AM


Re:More plate tectonics
Associated problems with CPT include -

1. Rate of magma production needs to be 10,000,000 to 100,000,000 times current rates to build the mounts before they move off the hot spot. At least 3,000,000 cubic kilometres of basalt has to be poured out on India for the Deccan Traps as it moves over the Reunion hot spot.

This has to cool quickly enough to show discrete layers (Trap comes from a word meaning step).

2. An appropriate of amount magma has to be poured out at the mid-ocean spreading ridges as the plates move apart, again orders of magnitude faster than currently observed.

This has to cool fast enough to take on the appropriate magnetic pole direction, as, for some reason, The Flood is accompanied by frantic reversals of the magnetic poles in CPT.

3. At the other end of the plates as they subduct, they have to rapidly dive 400 km deep to melt to magma, which then burrows up to build the island arcs such as the Aleutians, and all the volcanoes of the ring of fire with massive production of volcanic ash etc.

4. This all happens without leaving a massive layer of volcanic ash around the Earth, and with the heat from the accelerated RM decay not melting the Earth.

The ideas of CPT and a post-Flood Ice Age are dead in the water, so to speak!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1253 by ICANT, posted 07-01-2017 1:53 AM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
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edge
Member
Posts: 4464
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002
Member Rating: 4.1


(1)
Message 1256 of 1352 (813874)
07-01-2017 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1253 by ICANT
07-01-2017 1:53 AM


Re: Flood waters receeded into depths
Well I know the land mass was all in one place at one time Genesis 1:9 tells me that.

Yeah, 200 million years ago. I'm sure that the Bible was talking about Pangea.

And how could it 'all be in one place'? That doesn't really make sense.

Genesis 10:25 tells me that in the days of Peleg the earth was divided.

So, being 'divided' means plate tectonics?

Why was the 'earth' divided and not the land?

The continents are still moving but they are slowing down.

You may be accidentally correct here, but the evidence says that it has been going on for over a billion years and is likely to continue for a long time yet.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1253 by ICANT, posted 07-01-2017 1:53 AM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
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14174dm
Member
Posts: 145
From: Cincinnati OH
Joined: 10-12-2015


Message 1257 of 1352 (813878)
07-01-2017 5:01 PM
Reply to: Message 1248 by CRR
06-30-2017 4:07 AM


Re: Post Flood Ice Age
All I see are assertions without evidence or links to evidence.
This message is a reply to:
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14174dm
Member
Posts: 145
From: Cincinnati OH
Joined: 10-12-2015


(1)
Message 1258 of 1352 (813884)
07-01-2017 7:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1234 by ICANT
06-28-2017 1:24 PM


Re: Flood waters receeded into depths
You have never seen a tablecloth removed from a table that has a 6 place setting of all glasses, plates, forks, knives, spoons and food removed without disturbing them, have you?

EVERY time I have seen the table cloth trick, the plates, etc ALL jerk a couple inches no matter how good the performer. That's where the whiplash comes in. To suddenly move billions of tons of rock and everything sitting on them thousands of miles and just as suddenly stop them will have consequences. Shattered rock where plates come together rather than folded as we find in the Appalachian Mountains for example.

You didn't answer WHY? Wouldn't it be more impressive to humanity if God struck in a straight forward and immediate way? My experience is that humans learn much better from a direct & immediate consequence.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1234 by ICANT, posted 06-28-2017 1:24 PM ICANT has acknowledged this reply

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 1259 of 1352 (813941)
07-02-2017 9:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1256 by edge
07-01-2017 2:53 PM


Re: Flood waters receeded into depths
Hi edge,

edge writes:

Yeah, 200 million years ago. I'm sure that the Bible was talking about Pangea.

And just how do you know that Pangea existed 200 million year ago?

edge writes:

And how could it 'all be in one place'? That doesn't really make sense.

I was referring to dry land as there was wet land under all the ocean.
But actually the water was gathered to one place and left the dry land.

edge writes:

So, being 'divided' means plate tectonics?

I don't think of it being plate tectonics. I think of it as a puzzle together then moved to the different parts.

edge writes:

You may be accidentally correct here, but the evidence says that it has been going on for over a billion years and is likely to continue for a long time yet.

You don't have to believe it but that was no accident.

The plate movement is slowing, that is a fact.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1256 by edge, posted 07-01-2017 2:53 PM edge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1262 by NosyNed, posted 07-02-2017 11:48 PM ICANT has not yet responded
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ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 1260 of 1352 (813942)
07-02-2017 9:56 PM
Reply to: Message 1255 by Pollux
07-01-2017 3:16 AM


Re: Re:More plate tectonics
Hi Pollux,

Pollux writes:

The ideas of CPT and a post-Flood Ice Age are dead in the water, so to speak!

I will agree that what YEC'S talk about could not happen.

I am proposing that the continents moved to their present positions from their former location in 1 single nano second. In case you did not know a nano second is 1 billionth of a second.

You say that could not happen. And with normal knowledge that would be impossible.

But what is impossible for man and his thinking is simply child's play for God.

If I remember correctly everything is made up of atoms. All those atoms are held together by something magical called dark energy or dark matter. Something which no one has seen or understand. It just has to be or the universe would fly apart.

Let me introduce you to that energy that holds the universe together.

quote:
Colossians 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.


The Greek word translated consist means: 1.to place together, to set in the same place,to bring or band together. Digging a little further you find The Lexicon also says 4.to put together, unite parts into one whole.

God spoke and the atoms simply relocated to their present location in a nano second.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1255 by Pollux, posted 07-01-2017 3:16 AM Pollux has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1269 by Pollux, posted 07-04-2017 1:16 AM ICANT has not yet responded

    
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