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Author Topic:   The TRVE history of the Flood...
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 1013 of 1352 (812073)
06-14-2017 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1012 by Faith
06-14-2017 3:03 PM


Re: I've proved it a million times already
We see the past, and very well.
Certainly enough to know there was no global flood during human history.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1012 by Faith, posted 06-14-2017 3:03 PM Faith has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 1032 of 1352 (812241)
06-15-2017 2:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1030 by ICANT
06-15-2017 1:33 PM


Re: I've proved it a million times already
What type of a flood are you talking about being disproved? One like Faith talks about or one like the Bible describes? They are two different things.
Any global flood ca. 4350 years ago has been disproved.
My own archaeological and genetic research alone disproves a flood at that time, and my colleagues all over the world and going back upwards of 200 years have conclusively disproved a global flood at that time.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1030 by ICANT, posted 06-15-2017 1:33 PM ICANT has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 1056 of 1352 (812378)
06-16-2017 9:36 AM
Reply to: Message 1051 by ICANT
06-16-2017 3:57 AM


The date of the flood...
But if you want to discuss flood ideas with me you going to have to leave Faith's musings behind. Faith and I agree on one thing and that a world wide flood happened not to far in the past.
Faith puts the flood in the distant past, at the K-T boundary, the P-T boundary or even earlier.
Biblical scholars tend to place it around 4350 years ago, while DavidJay has an "exact" date of something like 4348 years ago.
When do you place it?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1051 by ICANT, posted 06-16-2017 3:57 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1057 by Faith, posted 06-16-2017 9:43 AM Coyote has replied
 Message 1160 by ICANT, posted 06-23-2017 5:09 AM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(3)
Message 1059 of 1352 (812387)
06-16-2017 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 1057 by Faith
06-16-2017 9:43 AM


Re: The date of the flood...
Where are you getting this idea? I put the Flood roughly where most YECs put it, about 4300 to 4500 years ago. I don't try to be exact, I figure that's close enough.
But you use rubber-band years, and attribute to the flood some events that are dated back to the K-T and P-T boundaries or beyond. The Grand Canyon was likely started something like 70 million years back, but you attribute that to the flood. And if I remember correctly (it may have been someone else) don't you attribute continental movements to the flood or post-flood era? Pangaea started to break up about 140-150 million years ago.
So if you claim to be using 4300-4500 years ago, your years are rubber-band years without any detectable association with reality.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1057 by Faith, posted 06-16-2017 9:43 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1060 by Faith, posted 06-16-2017 11:10 AM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 1061 of 1352 (812403)
06-16-2017 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 1060 by Faith
06-16-2017 11:10 AM


Re: The date of the flood...
There is no such thing as the KT or PT boundaries, that's all fiction based on the Geo Time Scale and since I reject all your dating systems you shouldn't pin them on me. Besides the dates I gave are nowhere near your Time Scale dates so why are you claiming they are? I absolutely reject all your dates.
Yes, you have to reject all dating methods, as otherwise they disprove your claims.
The Flood accounts for all the strata and all the fossils and yes I believe the continents moved apart after all the strata were in place
As I noted above, the Pangaea breakup was about 175 million years ago. So, you have humans running around at and before that date.
And as Wiki notes: The nearly 40 major sedimentary rock layers exposed in the Grand Canyon and in the Grand Canyon National Park area range in age from about 200 million to nearly 2 billion years old.
So, you have to claim that humans were around some 2 billion years ago. That's quite a stretch for 4350 years!
No wonder you have to reject all dating methods!

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1060 by Faith, posted 06-16-2017 11:10 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1062 by Faith, posted 06-16-2017 11:31 AM Coyote has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 1159 of 1352 (812825)
06-20-2017 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 1157 by Faith
06-20-2017 9:43 AM


Re: Evidence for the Flood revisited
I can only hope that some day you see the absolute total absurdity of the Geo Time Scale which makes your science a joke.
Actually, the "Geo Time Scale" holds up quite nicely, as do the various forms of dating that support both it and numerous other fields of science.
It is the young earth belief that does not hold up to scrutiny.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1157 by Faith, posted 06-20-2017 9:43 AM Faith has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 1164 of 1352 (813118)
06-23-2017 10:06 AM
Reply to: Message 1160 by ICANT
06-23-2017 5:09 AM


Re: The date of the flood...
ICANT writes:
Coyote writes:
When do you place it?
According to the different scholars the Bible says it took place about 2348 BC. It just depends on which one you believe.
How can you reconcile that date with the fact that we have archaeological evidence for that date showing no flood features, showing continuity of human cultures from before and after that date, and we have genetic patterns that are the same from before to after that date? And this is from my own archaeological research.
And my colleagues around the world have produced the same evidence thousands of times over.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1160 by ICANT, posted 06-23-2017 5:09 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1167 by ICANT, posted 06-23-2017 3:53 PM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 1168 of 1352 (813148)
06-23-2017 4:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1167 by ICANT
06-23-2017 3:53 PM


Re: The date of the flood...
What would you expect to find? The Bible says the earth was divided after the flood.
The evidence shows that's incorrect.
The breakup of Pangaea started some 175 million years ago.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1167 by ICANT, posted 06-23-2017 3:53 PM ICANT has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 1177 of 1352 (813160)
06-23-2017 8:00 PM
Reply to: Message 1175 by ICANT
06-23-2017 7:51 PM


Re: Flood waters receeded into depths
If you are placing the dividing of the continents 109 years after the flood, the Atlantic Ocean gap would have had to spread 1 mile per year between then and 1492 when major European exploration began--and then it would have had to stop abruptly!
What mechanism accounts for this?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1175 by ICANT, posted 06-23-2017 7:51 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1191 by ICANT, posted 06-27-2017 1:49 AM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 1204 of 1352 (813409)
06-27-2017 10:03 AM
Reply to: Message 1191 by ICANT
06-27-2017 1:49 AM


Re: Flood waters receeded into depths
So, no mechanism, just magic, eh?
"Goddidit" is not a very satisfying or convincing argument...

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1191 by ICANT, posted 06-27-2017 1:49 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1206 by ICANT, posted 06-27-2017 11:38 AM Coyote has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 1209 of 1352 (813423)
06-27-2017 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 1207 by ICANT
06-27-2017 11:50 AM


Re: Ducking, dodging and weaving (same as always)
We are each entitled to our own opinions.
But not to our own facts.
And the facts show there was no worldwide flood during historic times.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1207 by ICANT, posted 06-27-2017 11:50 AM ICANT has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 1220 of 1352 (813440)
06-27-2017 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1218 by ringo
06-27-2017 1:27 PM


Re: Flood waters receeded into depths
The division of the earth in Genesis has nothing to do with Pangea. Pangea separated long before there was any civilization.
But to creationists years are like rubber bands--stretch them any old which way to make things come out right.
Pangaea breaking up at 175 million years before humans were around? No problem.
Some creationists even put the flood at the P-T boundary, over 250 million years ago.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1218 by ringo, posted 06-27-2017 1:27 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 1280 of 1352 (814386)
07-08-2017 8:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1279 by Pollux
07-08-2017 8:35 PM


Re: Ice Core and volcanoes
What alternative conclusion is there?
As you can see by reading earlier posts in this thread, some posters feel that belief and scripture supersede scientific evidence.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1279 by Pollux, posted 07-08-2017 8:35 PM Pollux has seen this message but not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 1293 of 1352 (814803)
07-12-2017 11:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1291 by Faith
07-12-2017 11:37 PM


Re: Strata (1)
The strata, the fossils. Good grief, how obvious can you get? And the Old Earth scenario is simply wacko and impossible.
The dating issue convincingly shows that your beliefs are wrong.
You have nothing but your beliefs to counter multiple forms of dating that all point to the same thing.
This is the problem of evidence vs. biblical belief: in other words, science vs. anti-science. Once again you come down on the side of anti-science.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1291 by Faith, posted 07-12-2017 11:37 PM Faith has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2105 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 1296 of 1352 (814810)
07-13-2017 12:14 AM
Reply to: Message 1294 by Faith
07-12-2017 11:58 PM


Re: Strata (2)
The layers themselves and their fossil contents, no matter how sorted, speak of a worldwide water event.
Except that when dated those layers and their fossil contents are separated by millions or hundreds of millions of years.
That's why you have to dismiss the dating issue (based on belief, not on evidence). The dating shows that your global flood scenario during historic times could not have occurred.
Edited by Coyote, : spelling

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1294 by Faith, posted 07-12-2017 11:58 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1297 by Faith, posted 07-13-2017 12:16 AM Coyote has replied

  
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