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Member (Idle past 1661 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Age Correlations and An Old Earth, Version 2 No 1 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
marc9000 Member Posts: 1530 From: Ky U.S. Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Riiiight.... that's why nobody has ever been convicted of murder. I don't believe court systems absolutely prove things, they just come to the best conclusion they can based on the information they have. Worldviews aren't involved to the same extent.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2362 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Specific events in the past can usually be examined using a variety of techniques. In the example I gave we can date many pieces of shell and establish the age of a particular site. If somebody disagrees they can date more shells or other materials and see if they get different results.
And please stop using "proof" and "prove." As I posted before, those are not the criteria of science. Your use of those terms exposes you as a creationist and shows your lack of knowledge of the scientific method.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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marc9000 Member Posts: 1530 From: Ky U.S. Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Does DuPont use the scientific method? Does DuPont prove things? Was your statement wrong?
Do you think I can show you scientific things that DuPont proves? Edited by marc9000, : Took out trollish sentence. Edited by marc9000, : Added one more question
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2362 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Don't be a troll, its very unbecoming.
Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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jar Member (Idle past 95 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined:
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marc writes: Does DuPont use the scientific method? Does DuPont prove things? Was your statement wrong? Do you think I can show you scientific things that DuPont proves? Yes DuPont uses the scientific method often but does not use the scientific method to prove things.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member
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I don't believe court systems absolutely prove things, Nobody absolutely proves things.
they just come to the best conclusion they can based on the information they have. You mean like science?
Worldviews aren't involved to the same extent. What does worldviews have to do with it?
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edge Member (Idle past 1962 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined:
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Yes DuPont uses the scientific method often but does not use the scientific method to prove things.
Exactly. Dupont is not in the business to 'do science'. At some point, it becomes engineering. In this case, chemical engineering.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1661 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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The irony ... it burns ...
Riiiight.... that's why nobody has ever been convicted of murder. I don't believe court systems absolutely prove things, they just come to the best conclusion they can based on the information they have. Worldviews aren't involved to the same extent. You just described science ... it doesn't "absolutely prove things," it just comes to the best conclusion it can based on the information it has. And it does reach conclusions that are demonstrably valid beyond reasonable doubt, such as that the earth is very, very, very old, based on even more evidence than is posted in this thread. Conclusions we can have high confidence in being valid because of the preponderance of evidence. Especially when those conclusions are backed up by several different systems of investigation, using different methodologies, but reaching the same conclusions. Tree rings and lake and marine varves agreeing to remarkable degree of precision and accuracy not just on age but on 14C content and then agreeing with ice cores not just on volcanic events but on climate variations. Explaining results as errors in one system with some made up cockamamie creationist conception does not explain the consilience with the same results from other systems, and explaining results as errors in another system with some other made up cockamamie creationist conception does not explain the consilience with the same results from other systems, and this inability to explain the congruence and consilience in results is why cockamamie creationist conceptions have failed to explain reality in a way that incorporates ALL the objective empirical facts/evidence. ... ... while science consistently shows an old age for the earth that is beyond reasonable doubt. Why does the wiggle pattern of variation of 14C with age match the wiggle pattern of variation of 10Be in ice layers for the same ages if they are not both accurate and precise records of the cosmogenic climate that creates both 14C and 10Be in the atmosphere at different ages? Why does the pattern of variation of δ18O and δ13C in ice layers match the pattern of variation of δ18O and δ13C in a calcite flow in a cavern in Nevada for the same age, when one is measured by ice layers and the other is measured by two independent radiometric methods ("Thorium-230 dates were independently confirmed by non-USGS investigators using Protactinium-231.") ... if they are not due to the same actual age of the earth?
quote: (From Message 9 in this thread). The simplest explanation is that these congruent, correlating consiliences are due to actual age measurements, made by hard working scientists using a variety of methods that have each and all been demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt to be accurate and precise. The other simple explanation is that it was all created as a joke to delude people and with the intent to lead them astray. Loki comes to mind ... The earth is really old. Get used to it. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : .by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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JonF Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 6174 Joined:
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Are they provable? No. They can be, and are, established as true far beyond reasonable doubt. But the possibility of other explanations exists. E.g. the entire Universe could have been created last Thursday with a full complement of fake history and memories and whatever is required to make that creation undetectable. Or invisible magic space walruses could be affecting the results for their amusement. Go ahed, prove those impossible. There's an infinite number of other possibilities, none of which are worth serious consideration. But the existence of those possibilities requires that logically we cannot claim absolute proof such as we have in mathematics.
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ringo Member (Idle past 668 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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marc9000 writes:
Before you try to criticize science, you should learn what some of the terminology means.
So they're "absolutely" repeatable and observable, but not "provable"?
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Pressie Member (Idle past 231 days) Posts: 2103 From: Pretoria, SA Joined:
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marc9000 writes:
Events of the past aren't repeatable, and aren't observable,.me writes:
Actually, I didn't need to watch my parents having sex to have me. DNA does the trick. Do you have any idea what science is, marc9trillion?marc9000 writes:
You scored an own goal. Events of the past don’t have to be repeated to be scientific. In science the evidence provided must be observable and the experiments to confirm or deny hypotheses must be repeatable. There's no disagreement between YEC's and AED's on how life is pro-created. But there is disagreement on between them on how old the earth is, what the supernatural is capable of if it isn't bound by one time and three space dimensions. It would help you if you knew the basics about basic science before trying to "prove" that science is wrong...
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1661 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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... But there is disagreement on between them on how old the earth is, ... Is that disagreement based on science or fantasy? Are you going to reply to Message 548 which shows that the earth is older than fantasy YECie belief/opinion/delusion ...
... what the supernatural is capable of if it isn't bound by one time and three space dimensions. Or do you go with the alternative?
quote: Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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marc9000 Member Posts: 1530 From: Ky U.S. Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
marc9000 writes: I don't believe court systems absolutely prove things, Nobody absolutely proves things. In 'pure science', things are proved. If DuPont uses pure science to determine to try a new chemical formula in one of its paint products to improve its performance, and it's performance is observed to be improved, then that scientific experiment was proven.
marc9000 writes: they just come to the best conclusion they can based on the information they have. You mean like science? Not pure science. Just theoretical science, often atheistic science.
marc9000 writes: Worldviews aren't involved to the same extent. What does worldviews have to do with it? EVERYTHING. What to study, how thorough to study it, what desired conclusions have already been reached, etc.
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marc9000 Member Posts: 1530 From: Ky U.S. Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
jar writes: Yes DuPont uses the scientific method often but does not use the scientific method to prove things. Exactly. Dupont is not in the business to 'do science'. It's not? With the slogan of "The Miracles of Science"?
At some point, it becomes engineering. In this case, chemical engineering. "At some point", within DuPont's many methods, including science. (pure science) Not the atheist-promoting kind.
quote: Science and Innovation | DuPont You'll notice there was nothing there about wasting a lot of time and effort in agonizing over the age of the earth. Some more from that link;
quote: (bolded mine) If you and others here don't think DuPont is in the business to do science, shouldn't the scientific community sue them for claiming they do?
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marc9000 Member Posts: 1530 From: Ky U.S. Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
marc9000 writes: I don't believe court systems absolutely prove things, they just come to the best conclusion they can based on the information they have. Worldviews aren't involved to the same extent. You just described science ... it doesn't "absolutely prove things," it just comes to the best conclusion it can based on the information it has. Often after starting with a pre-determined conclusion, heavily influenced by a worldview.
Explaining results as errors in one system with some made up cockamamie creationist conception does not explain the consilience with the same results from other systems, and explaining results as errors in another system with some other made up cockamamie creationist conception does not explain the consilience with the same results from other systems, and this inability to explain the congruence and consilience in results is why cockamamie creationist conceptions have failed to explain reality in a way that incorporates ALL the objective empirical facts/evidence. ... Except when the creationist conception considers the possibility of another time dimension. Something the human mind can't comprehend. And as I alluded to earlier, if we try to mistakenly jam-pack all of reality into ONLY what we can understand, the possibilities of going off on a wrong tangent and having it quickly snowball into a whole lot of wrongs is understood by those who don't think humans are perfect, who don't think humans are gods.
The earth is really old. Get used to it. I don't need to get used to it, I live in the present. The only reason you would suggest that I get used to it is to make it easier for me to accept future liberal political commands that are associated with its "knowledge". That's what the scientific community's brand of science is all about, isn't it?
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