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Author | Topic: Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
JonF Member (Idle past 193 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
You object to his use of colors and fonts? I read it as pointing our the colors and fonts and sizes distract from the fact that all he has is unsupported assertion.
How about commenting on the substance of his post? OK, I will. CRR: Show us the evidence and analysis.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Don't cop out. Show me the quote.
Regardless though, my point stands: a single occurrence of spontaneous generation is not required for universal common ancestry. Care to address that point?
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Taq Member Posts: 10067 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
Dredge writes: It comes as no surprise all that you can't give me an example. There is an example in the paper I already cited for you:
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Taq Member Posts: 10067 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
Dredge writes: You forgot to mention the widdle ol' fact that "common ancestry" is an assumption. It's a conclusion drawn from evidence. 29+ Evidences for Macroevolution: The Scientific Case for Common Descent
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Taq Member Posts: 10067 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
Dredge writes: It never ceases to amaze me that in this day and age there are educated adults who believe that dead matter can somehow produce life. How do you think life came about?
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Taq Member Posts: 10067 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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Faith writes:
I guess either can be called a superstition if that's your point, but Genesis 2:7 gives the essential difference between life spontaneously coming out of matter and God creating life by using matter, which is that, according to the Bible, the life doesn't come from the matter, God breathes life into the matter after He's formed the material body. Matter can't breathe life into itself, even if it could somehow come up with the material shell, which of course it couldn't without the life in it. In other words life is something entirely different from matter, matter is just the vehicle for life to be able to function in the physical universe. A deity creating life from dirt is the very definition of superstition.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Regardless though, my point stands: a single occurrence of spontaneous generation is not required for universal common ancestry. We don't even have to go that far -- multiple roots of single cell life are now hypothesized with genes shared by horizontal transfer, a process that has been observed in living single cell organisms, even when not of the same "species" (genetic lineage). There is no reason to think this did not occur in early life forms, and I even find it more likely to occur before evolution got settled into genetic lineages. We can also say that the eukaryote cell is a fusion of two single cell organisms, where one is "swallowed" by the other:
quote: ... which would mean that all eukaryotes have at least two common ancestors, if not several ... AND, there is no reason to think that this horizontal transfer was not occurring in pre-biotic life structures, so that they could mix and match functional systems to develop a superior strain (or strains) for survival and reproduction. The RNA structures could also be remnants of the RNA world, when only RNA was used before DNA evolved and outcompeted the RNA forms, consuming them, and incorporating some of them into the cell structure. The DNA does not show that there had to be a single ancestor, just that all the various ancestral lineages that combined and used horizontal transfer ended up with DNA elements and RNA elements we all carry. That is basically 5 nucleic molecules, which then get rearranged into different patterns. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1469 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Call it whatever you want but as I said it is NOT about "creating life from dirt," it clearly says that life CANNOT be created from dirt, that the principle of life is something other than dirt that must be added.
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JonF Member (Idle past 193 days) Posts: 6174 Joined:
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it clearly says that life CANNOT be created from dirt In English there is supposed to be an antecedent for a pronoun. To what does "it" refer? If the Bible, then it's not relevant in a science forum.
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Taq Member Posts: 10067 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
Faith writes: Call it whatever you want but as I said it is NOT about "creating life from dirt," it clearly says that life CANNOT be created from dirt, that the principle of life is something other than dirt that must be added. Then how did life come about, according to you?
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
CRR writes:
Matter isn't dead. Some matter isn't alive and never was - e.g. an iron bar. Some matter is alive - e.g. a squirrel. Some matter used to be alive - e.g. a corpse. The corpse is dead but the matter isn't. Dead matter can't produce life.Humans can't produce life from dead matter. There's no fundamental difference between the matter in a living thing and the matter in a non-living thing. Life is just a different set of chemical reactions. And it isn't even all that easy to tell whether something is alive or not. It's a fuzzy line. So it's rather silly to proclaim that matter can't make a certain change.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9509 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Dredge writes: Humans can't produce life from dead matter. Just out of interest, would anything change for you if science could do that?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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caffeine Member (Idle past 1050 days) Posts: 1800 From: Prague, Czech Republic Joined:
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If you're trying to establish that abiogenesis is a founding assumption of evolution, you're doing it in an odd way.
Following the link on that page to lecture on speciation we find "Life has evolved from non-life, and complex organisms from simpler forms." ABIOGENESIS That does, indeed, mention abiogenesis; but as you yourself point out it's not in the same place as where the author was describing the tenets of Darwin's theory of evolution. It's not even on the same page. In the page where it is found, it's not part of the actual discussion of the topic (speciation). Rather, it's found in the introduction, where whoever wrote this is discussing the idea that the term 'evolution' is used also to mean 'change over time' in general, not only in the more restricted sense of biological evolution. He offers your quote above ('life has evolved from non-life') as an example of this; along with the evolution of stars and the evolution of religions and political beliefs. The very same page lists two definitions of biological evolution; neither of which include abiogenesis.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 99 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
dwise1 writes:
I've already told you. Why you no listen to Dredge? The facts that led to to the assumption/conclusion of common ancestry produced the results.
So what's your assumption here? Blind random luck producing those results?Yet more of your deceptive lies.
I was thinking of inviting you to my birthday party, but now I having second thoughts, as you keep calling me bad names and for no good reason.
And yet you continue to behave as if you believed that evolution contradicts the idea of a Creator.
I've stated elsewhere that evolution doesn't rule out the possibility of a Creator. However, millions of years of evolution is incompatible with the Bible.
Where do you get such nonsense from? I know where, from your creationist handlers who are feeding you lie after lie.
My "creationist handlers" go by the name of The Father, Son and Holy Spirit, who speak the truth. You would do well to listen to them. Edited by Dredge, : No reason given. Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 99 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Minnemooseus writes:
Yes, since I'm a creationist, that's what I meant; sorry I didn't make myself clear.
Dredge writes:
Unless God is involved, I suppose. It never ceases to amaze me that in this day and age there are educated adults who believe that dead matter can somehow produce life. Might not God have started a very simple form of life from "the dust of the ground"? (Theistic abiogenisis/evolution in action).
Certainly that would be possible, if God is omnipotent ... in which case, anything is possible. However, the Bible clearly indicates it didn't happen that way. For example, consider the quote you supplied:Genesis 2:7 - "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." It says God formed "man" from the dust of the ground and the "man" became a living soul; it doesn't say God formed a unicellular bug from the dust of the ground and the unicellular bug became a living soul.
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