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Author Topic:   Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(1)
Message 1249 of 1311 (816488)
08-05-2017 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1247 by Faith
08-05-2017 9:33 AM


Re: inspiration
That is indeed logical. IF the writings are inspired by God, IF the people who wrote them down were inspired by God, then they are inerrant and it is not a matter of human opinion.

IF.

Got anything other than your opinion to get rid of those IFs?

Obviously not.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1247 by Faith, posted 08-05-2017 9:33 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1251 by Faith, posted 08-05-2017 10:33 AM JonF has replied

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(1)
Message 1254 of 1311 (816493)
08-05-2017 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 1251 by Faith
08-05-2017 10:33 AM


Re: inspiration
A simple if...then really ought not to be such a problem

The if...then is not a problem. It's true. The problem is your unsupported leap from if..then to is.

It's not a matter of opinion.

It is a matter of opinion, absent any supporting evidence.

You claim that Bible is dictated by God and inerrant because the Bible is dictated by God and inerrant. Awfully tight circular reasoning there. And not logical.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1251 by Faith, posted 08-05-2017 10:33 AM Faith has taken no action

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(1)
Message 1255 of 1311 (816494)
08-05-2017 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 1253 by Faith
08-05-2017 10:47 AM


Re: this preposterous method
The Bible has been believed by millions for the last two millennia, and been the cause of great changes in society, even the foundation of western civilization itself out of barbarian Europe.

Somewhat true and irrelevant to the issue on inerrancy.

Got any evidence relevant to inerrancy or God's dictaphone? "Lots of people believe it" is not proof. Lots of people are wrong about lots of things.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1253 by Faith, posted 08-05-2017 10:47 AM Faith has taken no action

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1260 of 1311 (816502)
08-05-2017 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 1257 by Faith
08-05-2017 11:22 AM


Re: this preposterous method
But lemme see, how might I try to answer this? According to your reasoning the truth is to be found in the greater numbers of those who disbelieve in the Bible? Is majority opinion really the basis of truth?

No.

But you seem to think it is:

The Bible has been believed by millions for the last two millennia

He was criticizing that claim.

So, does it matter how many people believe or disbelieve?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1257 by Faith, posted 08-05-2017 11:22 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1262 by Faith, posted 08-05-2017 11:51 AM JonF has replied

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1267 of 1311 (816513)
08-05-2017 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 1262 by Faith
08-05-2017 11:51 AM


Re: this preposterous method
Which has nothing to do with the question of authorship.

Of course you've admitted it's understandable by far fewer than all. Well under half.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1262 by Faith, posted 08-05-2017 11:51 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1271 by Faith, posted 08-05-2017 1:16 PM JonF has replied

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1268 of 1311 (816514)
08-05-2017 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 1264 by Faith
08-05-2017 11:54 AM


Re: this preposterous method
Time may tell.

Today there is no convincing evidence.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1264 by Faith, posted 08-05-2017 11:54 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1269 by Faith, posted 08-05-2017 1:09 PM JonF has replied

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1273 of 1311 (816523)
08-05-2017 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1269 by Faith
08-05-2017 1:09 PM


Re: this preposterous method
And there certainly isn't enough convincing evidence to persuade many more millions. The number of believers doesn't establish truth. As you acknowledged.

On what facts do you base your claim that "religions, by the way, don't have any evidence or require any, unless you happen to get waylaid by one of their demon deities."? Or is another of your fantasies not based on any reality?

I can't figure out what you mean by "unless you happen to get waylaid by one of their demon deities". You are obviously acknowledging the existence of other deities.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1269 by Faith, posted 08-05-2017 1:09 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1277 by Faith, posted 08-05-2017 10:53 PM JonF has replied

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1274 of 1311 (816525)
08-05-2017 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 1271 by Faith
08-05-2017 1:16 PM


Re: this preposterous method
No, I am explicitly saying that numbers don't determine truth, and you're flip-flopping between "numbers don't determine truth" and "so many people have been convinced it must be true.

I didn't say" authority", I said "authorship", meaning authorship of the Bible. If your sight is so poor you can't tell the difference you should learn a little Christian humility before ranting like that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1271 by Faith, posted 08-05-2017 1:16 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1278 by Faith, posted 08-05-2017 10:54 PM JonF has replied

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1286 of 1311 (816554)
08-06-2017 7:34 AM
Reply to: Message 1278 by Faith
08-05-2017 10:54 PM


Re: this preposterous method
I also wasn't addressing authorship.

I was. It looks as if you weren't addressing anything, just writing a randomly chosen message with no connection to mine.

I wrote:

quote:
Which has nothing to do with the question of authorship.
Of course you've admitted it's understandable by far fewer than all. Well under half.

To which you replied:

quote:
Gosh, maybe it doesn't have anything to do with the question of authority because I wasn't addressing the question of authority at that point. Golly gosh. And again you are arguing the numbers, as if majority determined truth, while I am not.

To what antecedent does "it" refer? Where did arguing with numbers cvome from? Did you have some reason for replying to my message with a message that has no connection to mine (according to you)?

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1278 by Faith, posted 08-05-2017 10:54 PM Faith has taken no action

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1287 of 1311 (816555)
08-06-2017 7:38 AM
Reply to: Message 1276 by Faith
08-05-2017 10:48 PM


Re: this preposterous method
I'm claiming my interpretation is true. How does that make me "infallible?"

Because you refuse to consider the possibility that you might be wrong or engage in any meaningful discussion of why you ink your interpretation is true. You have based your interpretation solely on your reading of the Bible, without considering any facts from the real world or anyone else's interpretation of the Bible.

I can't speak for others, but I wrote:

quote:
Personally, I doubt God dictated the bible but I don't claim any certainty; because such opinions are unsupportable.

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1276 by Faith, posted 08-05-2017 10:48 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1289 by Faith, posted 08-06-2017 7:48 AM JonF has replied

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1288 of 1311 (816556)
08-06-2017 7:43 AM
Reply to: Message 1277 by Faith
08-05-2017 10:53 PM


Re: this preposterous method
The Bible is all about evidence because it's history,

Some is history, some isn't.

Other religions just teach you principles,

Really,? What research have performed to support this claim? What other religions' holy books have you studied? Zero?

they aren't interested in proving anything about their claims though they may describe all kinds of supernatural phenomena

I see. when the Bible describes all sorts of supernatural phenomena, it's strong evidence for the reality and nature of your God. When other religions do the same, it's meaningless.

In my experience you aren't asked to believe them, just practice their principles.

Exactly what experience do you have?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1277 by Faith, posted 08-05-2017 10:53 PM Faith has taken no action

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1290 of 1311 (816558)
08-06-2017 8:14 AM
Reply to: Message 1289 by Faith
08-06-2017 7:48 AM


Re: this preposterous method
OK, you'e considered other's interpretations of the Bible. But not reality.

Could your interpretation be wrong?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1289 by Faith, posted 08-06-2017 7:48 AM Faith has taken no action

Replies to this message:
 Message 1291 by PaulK, posted 08-06-2017 8:19 AM JonF has taken no action

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1294 of 1311 (816562)
08-06-2017 8:59 AM
Reply to: Message 1293 by Faith
08-06-2017 8:35 AM


Re: God gave animals brains to use.
OK, you'e considered other's interpretations of the Bible. But not reality.

Could your interpretation be wrong?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1293 by Faith, posted 08-06-2017 8:35 AM Faith has taken no action

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1295 of 1311 (816563)
08-06-2017 9:00 AM
Reply to: Message 1293 by Faith
08-06-2017 8:35 AM


Re: God gave animals brains to use.
Personally I see no issue with consulting other sources than our own mind. I recommend it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1293 by Faith, posted 08-06-2017 8:35 AM Faith has taken no action

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1296 of 1311 (816564)
08-06-2017 9:00 AM
Reply to: Message 1293 by Faith
08-06-2017 8:35 AM


Re: God gave animals brains to use.
The Bible is all about evidence because it's history,

Some is history, some isn't.
Other religions just teach you principles,

Really,? What research have performed to support this claim? What other religions' holy books have you studied? Zero?

they aren't interested in proving anything about their claims though they may describe all kinds of supernatural phenomena

I see. when the Bible describes all sorts of supernatural phenomena, it's strong evidence for the reality and nature of your God. When other religions do the same, it's meaningless.

In my experience you aren't asked to believe them, just practice their principles.

Exactly what experience do you have?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1293 by Faith, posted 08-06-2017 8:35 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1300 by Faith, posted 08-06-2017 12:53 PM JonF has taken no action

  
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