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Author Topic:   Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
Faith
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Posts: 34351
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1230 of 1311 (816446)
08-04-2017 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1226 by ringo
08-04-2017 11:36 AM


Re: seven "assumptions"
All writings are subject to the failures of human understanding.

Except those inspired by God.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1226 by ringo, posted 08-04-2017 11:36 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1231 by Taq, posted 08-04-2017 4:25 PM Faith has responded
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Faith
Member
Posts: 34351
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1232 of 1311 (816448)
08-04-2017 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1231 by Taq
08-04-2017 4:25 PM


Re: seven "assumptions"
It is humans who claim that writings were inspired by God.

It is humans inspired by God who claim that writings were inspired by God.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1231 by Taq, posted 08-04-2017 4:25 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 34351
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1237 of 1311 (816459)
08-04-2017 7:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1236 by JonF
08-04-2017 5:41 PM


Re: seven "assumptions"
Weird. Do you think everything everyone thinks about anything at all, including yourself, is so fallible you can never decide if you are ever right about any of it?

Of course not.

I'm right.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1236 by JonF, posted 08-04-2017 5:41 PM JonF has responded

Replies to this message:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 34351
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1241 of 1311 (816473)
08-05-2017 3:17 AM
Reply to: Message 1238 by JonF
08-04-2017 7:56 PM


Re: seven "assumptions"
I don't feel any need to try to prove it. It remains a fact that if God inspired the writers the writing has no errors and should be taken as God's own communication. My opinion is irrelevant, as is yours.

This message is a reply to:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 34351
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1247 of 1311 (816485)
08-05-2017 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 1246 by JonF
08-05-2017 8:10 AM


inspiration
Funny how y'all keep missing the simple basic logic here, which is stated thusly: If the writings are inspired by God, if the people who wrote them down were inspired by God, then they are inerrant and it is not a matter of human opinion. Just fyi, the Greek word translated "inspired" in English literally means "God-breathed."

This message is a reply to:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 34351
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1251 of 1311 (816490)
08-05-2017 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 1249 by JonF
08-05-2017 9:49 AM


Re: inspiration
Ah well, A simple if...then really ought not to be such a problem. It's not a matter of opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1249 by JonF, posted 08-05-2017 9:49 AM JonF has responded

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Faith
Member
Posts: 34351
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1253 of 1311 (816492)
08-05-2017 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 1250 by Tangle
08-05-2017 10:26 AM


this preposterous method
...and why did he use this preposterous method that was bound to go wrong and be disbelieved? Why not write them himself?

People ignorant of 2000 years of theology really should take the time to learn something instead of expressing such ridiculous opinions.

"Bound to go wrong?" That's ridiculous for starters. The Bible has been believed by millions for the last two millennia, and been the cause of great changes in society, even the foundation of western civilization itself out of barbarian Europe.

If some disbelieve it hardly matters. And besides we know that was part of the plan. God isn't interested in turning the entire world into believers, but in saving those who do believe out of this fallen world, to make up a chosen people, just as He did with ancient Israel. It's His way whether you like it or not. So we have believers and we have unbelievers, until He comes again.

There is enough there to make believers of millions. I forget exactly how Pascal put it, but something like this: The Bible contains enough light to guide believers, and enough obscurity to discourage unbelievers. There's no lack of light for anyone who in good faith would like to understand and believe, but if you don't or won't, so be it.

Pascal also said something about those who are always objecting to Biblical revelation: that they really ought to learn something about the religion they are criticizing before they open their mouths. Of course there are always those who have learned a great deal and use it as a cudgel too. The more the truth is attacked, however, the more it acquires believers. Funny how that is.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1250 by Tangle, posted 08-05-2017 10:26 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 34351
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1257 of 1311 (816496)
08-05-2017 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 1256 by Tangle
08-05-2017 11:04 AM


Re: this preposterous method
Faith writes:

Bound to go wrong?" That's ridiculous for starters. The Bible has been believed by millions for the last two millennia, and been the cause of great changes in society, even the foundation of western civilization itself out of barbarian Europe.

Even after 2,000 years it's disbelieved by billions more than believe. And those that believe in it don't believe the same things. Why make it this way? Why not write it yourself? How is it possible to that the word of god is not capable of being understood equally by all?

I'm glad I can see the humor in all this lately. The cleverness of the debunkers is really very amusing.

But lemme see, how might I try to answer this? According to your reasoning the truth is to be found in the greater numbers of those who disbelieve in the Bible? Is majority opinion really the basis of truth?

Why not understood by all? Perhaps because as the Bible itself reveals, this world is fallen, our minds are corrupted, we lost touch with God through the disobedience of our original parents and have continued to be sinners ever since. The evidence of that is in the billions of disbelievers for starters. Also in the fact that the ability to believe is a gift from God, it's not in us as fallen humanity, and it's a gift based on the great sacrifice of the Son of God who died so that God could give us eternal life, which He couldn't morally or justly do until our sin debt was paid for. It would defeat the purpose of demonstrating the realities of fallenness, sin, salvation and redemption, if everyone could understand the Bible. There are many here who think they understand it but don't. All that is evidence of its truth, or will be seen to be in the end.

SO I suppose we have to have debunkers until Jesus returns, in order to demonstrate the truth of the Bible itself. To demonstrate the ugliness of sin and the costliness of atoning for it. .

This is way way way off topic you know.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1256 by Tangle, posted 08-05-2017 11:04 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1258 by Tangle, posted 08-05-2017 11:33 AM Faith has responded
 Message 1260 by JonF, posted 08-05-2017 11:44 AM Faith has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 34351
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1261 of 1311 (816504)
08-05-2017 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 1258 by Tangle
08-05-2017 11:33 AM


Re: this preposterous method
Faith writes:

But lemme see, how might I try to answer this? According to your reasoning the truth is to be found in the greater numbers of those who disbelieve in the Bible?

It was your point Chuck, not mine.

"The Bible has been believed by millions for the last two millennia"

But one imagines that the point of it was to persuade? If so it's failed. Christianity is not even a majority belief. And in the developed world it's in decline.

The point of pointing out that millions have believed was specifically to counter your notion that to have any validity it should be understandable by all. My point was that it IS understandable by plenty, by millions, even billions really in the end, and has in fact promoted great good in the world as a result. It wasn't a statement about numbers as such but a way of saying obviously it is understandable and in a way that makes a difference in the world. It isn't exactly that the "point of it was to persuade" but that it is designed to persuade exactly those whom God wants to persuade, as Pascal's comment explains.

Even its being in decline is going to demonstrate its truth in the end, especially if it's an indication that we are approaching the last of the last days, about which scripture has a lot to say.

Faith writes:

There are many here who think they understand it but don't.

Exactly my point. Why bother leaving this vitally important story in the hands of fallible man? Why not write it himself?

I answered that. So my answer doesn't persuade you. What else is new?

It's actually done and is doing exactly what God intended it to do.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1258 by Tangle, posted 08-05-2017 11:33 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 34351
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1262 of 1311 (816506)
08-05-2017 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 1260 by JonF
08-05-2017 11:44 AM


Re: this preposterous method
So, does it matter how many people believe or disbelieve?

Not in itself, no, as I just explained to Tangle.

In the OT God says He always has a "remnant" who remain true even when the majority have gone off the rails. That was true then and has to be true now as well.

The point of mentioning the numbers was, as I explained, to show that the Bible IS understandable and by enough people to do great good in the world.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1260 by JonF, posted 08-05-2017 11:44 AM JonF has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1263 by ringo, posted 08-05-2017 11:53 AM Faith has responded
 Message 1267 by JonF, posted 08-05-2017 12:50 PM Faith has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 34351
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1264 of 1311 (816508)
08-05-2017 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 1263 by ringo
08-05-2017 11:53 AM


Re: this preposterous method
Ha ha. So you say. Time will tell.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1263 by ringo, posted 08-05-2017 11:53 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1266 by ringo, posted 08-05-2017 12:10 PM Faith has responded
 Message 1268 by JonF, posted 08-05-2017 12:51 PM Faith has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 34351
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1269 of 1311 (816515)
08-05-2017 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1268 by JonF
08-05-2017 12:51 PM


Re: this preposterous method
All I can do is say the same thing again: there certainly is a lot of convincing evidence or the multiple millions I mentioned earlier would not have been convinced. Other religions, by the way, don't have any evidence or require any, unless you happen to get waylaid by one of their demon deities. Christianity does rest on evidence, but the contemporary "enlightened" fallen mind rejects it. All the miracles in the Bible are evidence for starters.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 1273 by JonF, posted 08-05-2017 2:31 PM Faith has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 34351
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1270 of 1311 (816516)
08-05-2017 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1266 by ringo
08-05-2017 12:10 PM


Re: this preposterous method
Putting good for evil and evil for good as you are doing is a very dangerous thing to do, are you unable to make a case without the personal accusation?

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1266 by ringo, posted 08-05-2017 12:10 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1272 by ringo, posted 08-05-2017 1:21 PM Faith has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 34351
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1271 of 1311 (816517)
08-05-2017 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1267 by JonF
08-05-2017 12:50 PM


Re: this preposterous method
Gosh, maybe it doesn't have anything to do with the question of authority because I wasn't addressing the question of authority at that point. Golly gosh. And again you are arguing the numbers, as if majority determined truth, while I am not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1267 by JonF, posted 08-05-2017 12:50 PM JonF has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1274 by JonF, posted 08-05-2017 2:38 PM Faith has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 34351
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 1276 of 1311 (816534)
08-05-2017 10:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1272 by ringo
08-05-2017 1:21 PM


Re: this preposterous method
I'm claiming my interpretation is true. How does that make me "infallible?" Everybody claims their view is the true one. So do you. Ever noticed how flatly assertive your one-liners are? Sounds "infallible" to me.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1272 by ringo, posted 08-05-2017 1:21 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
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 Message 1304 by ringo, posted 08-06-2017 1:28 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
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