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Author Topic:   Is it "Politically Correct"...
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 195 (816935)
08-13-2017 8:37 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Faith
08-13-2017 6:42 PM


My understanding is that immediate incitement to violence - something like, "Hey, that guy there is a commie! Get him!" - can be made illegal and is in some places.
General advocacy - like, "Commies should be lynched!" - is protected speech.
Unless someone more lawyerly than me beats me to it, I might try to find some cites when I have time.

Patriotism is the excuse that countries give to themselves for their failures. — Stephen Marche

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Faith, posted 08-13-2017 6:42 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Faith, posted 08-14-2017 12:21 AM Chiroptera has replied
 Message 21 by Diomedes, posted 08-14-2017 9:58 AM Chiroptera has seen this message but not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 78 of 195 (817216)
08-15-2017 8:26 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Faith
08-14-2017 12:21 AM


Well, I couldn't find any examples where organizations were punished for advocacy of illegal activities. Either such a thing just isn't done in this country (the US), or my Google skills are seriously awful.
The closest I could find is the Communist Control Act of 1954. But it isn't clear to me whether it was passed to punish the Communist Party for advocating something or for actually doing things. Also, the intent of the law was really more to prove how patriotic the members of Congress were, so it was never enforced and so never tested in the courts.
I am reminded of the defunding of ACORN and current efforts to defund Planned Parenthood, but those are for those organizations' activities or alleged activities, not for their advocacy.
Finally, there's the famous (at least for First Amendment nuts like myself) case of Brandenburg v Ohio, which declared unconstitutional a Ohio law that made the mere advocacy of terrorism to accomplish political reform.
That case involved an individual, not an organization, but the decision was pretty clear: unless the speech actually incites imminent lawless action, it is protected speech:
The Act punishes persons who "advocate or teach the duty, necessity, or propriety" of violence "as a means of accomplishing industrial or political reform"; or who publish or circulate or display any book or paper containing such advocacy; or who "justify" the commission of violent acts "with intent to exemplify, spread or advocate the propriety of the doctrines of criminal syndicalism"; or who "voluntarily assemble" with a group formed "to teach or advocate the doctrines of criminal syndicalism." Neither the indictment nor the trial judge's instructions to the jury in any way refined the statute's bald definition of the crime in terms of mere advocacy not distinguished from incitement to imminent lawless action.
I suspect that any attempt to punish an organization for advocacy of violence in a manner that was not seen to incite imminent lawless action would face the same fate. But then, you never know what will happen until an actual case comes before the nine people who are currently on the Supreme Court.

Patriotism is the excuse that countries give to themselves for their failures. — Stephen Marche

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 Message 19 by Faith, posted 08-14-2017 12:21 AM Faith has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 124 of 195 (817470)
08-17-2017 5:21 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by Joe T
08-17-2017 3:55 PM


Re: I guess fairness isn't going to happen on such subjects
I was not impressed. Tell me how chanting, "Jews will not replace us" has anything to do with a civil war statue. Tell me how screaming, "you sound like a nigger" at the counter protesters has anything to do with the statue.
If you look at the history of the Jim Crow era South and the history of when and why those statues were originally erected, the you'll see that those chants pretty much are what those statues are about.

Patriotism is the excuse that countries give to themselves for their failures. — Stephen Marche

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Joe T, posted 08-17-2017 3:55 PM Joe T has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by Faith, posted 08-17-2017 5:25 PM Chiroptera has not replied

  
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