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Author Topic:   The Giant Pool Of Money. Implications
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 331 of 423 (817589)
08-18-2017 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 330 by Phat
08-18-2017 12:19 PM


Re: Hollowed Out Middle Class
Phat writes:
I might only add fairly but not preferentially.
But you want the middle class to be treated preferentially, don't you? You don't want to be relegated to the dirty working class, do you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 330 by Phat, posted 08-18-2017 12:19 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 332 by Phat, posted 08-18-2017 12:35 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 333 of 423 (817593)
08-18-2017 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 332 by Phat
08-18-2017 12:35 PM


Re: Hollowed Out Middle Class
Phat writes:
My beef is that the middle class should receive the same benefits the working class does.
Why?
Should healthy people get the same benefits as sick people?
Phat writes:
The alternative is to get nothing while the bottom raises up to the middle.(Making a new bottom)
There will always be a bottom. What's wrong with making the bottom a little better?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 332 by Phat, posted 08-18-2017 12:35 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 335 by Phat, posted 08-18-2017 4:23 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 336 of 423 (817699)
08-19-2017 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 334 by New Cat's Eye
08-18-2017 2:43 PM


Re: Hollowed Out Middle Class
New Cat's Eye writes:
ringo writes:
Your point seems to be that minimum wage earners don't deserve to be treated fairly.
How so?
You were saying that wages plus tips makes a fair income. I pointed out that all minimum wage earners don't get tips.
Forget about tips. Don't minimum wage earners deserve a living wage?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 334 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-18-2017 2:43 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 340 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-22-2017 1:39 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 337 of 423 (817702)
08-19-2017 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 335 by Phat
08-18-2017 4:23 PM


Re: Hollowed Out Middle Class
Phat writes:
Why ignore your healthy climbers while attending only to the stragglers?
Because the stragglers need the help.
Phat writes:
It seems unfair for the climbers to have to struggle harder than the rest only for the right to make life better for their families.
Again... When have I ever suggested that anybody should have to struggle harder? I'm for making the struggle easier for the ones who are struggling most.
Phat writes:
You say Boo Hoo as if you have no sympathy for a man who showed up on time every day...
The minimum wage earner has showed up on time every day too - and often at two or three jobs.
Phat writes:
...and socked away his spare change for the dream of a retirement...
The minimum wage earner has no "spare" change to sock away, so yes, boo hoo for the other guy who does.
Phat writes:
...but seemingly would applaud a man who gave everything up for himself in order that the poorer masses could achieve whatever you deem normal for them to achieve....health care, perhaps.
What the hell are you talking about? Who is this angelic being who "gave everything up"?
Phat writes:
Let us not ignore those of us who climbed out of mediocrity and worked twice as hard to better our families....
You didn't work twice as hard.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 335 by Phat, posted 08-18-2017 4:23 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 338 by Phat, posted 08-20-2017 11:01 AM ringo has replied
 Message 342 by Phat, posted 08-22-2017 4:33 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 339 of 423 (817813)
08-20-2017 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 338 by Phat
08-20-2017 11:01 AM


Re: Atheists Often Make The Best Preachers
Phat writes:
ringp writes:
Who is this angelic being who "gave everything up"?
Matthew 25.
You'll have to be more specific. To me it looks like Matthew 25 is about sacrifices that we should be making for our fellow man.
Phat writes:
Perhaps the Right Wing all gets raptured off to Neverland!
The Right Wing is already in Neverland.
Edited by ringo, : Spellinging.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 338 by Phat, posted 08-20-2017 11:01 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 349 of 423 (818109)
08-23-2017 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 340 by New Cat's Eye
08-22-2017 1:39 PM


Re: Hollowed Out Middle Class
New Cat's Eye writes:
... it depends on the value of the work they are providing to the employer. And that is fair.
How do you decide that it's "fair"? From what I've seen, employers tend to pay the least they can get away with. That has nothing to do with fairness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 340 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-22-2017 1:39 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 353 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-23-2017 3:20 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 350 of 423 (818111)
08-23-2017 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 342 by Phat
08-22-2017 4:33 PM


Re: Hollowed Out Middle Class
Phat writes:
There are a few of the working class who have pulled themselves up---by sheer effort---to become middle class.
Bullshit.
Phat writes:
I am not a champion of pulling the bottom up to the middle if it means the middle has to keep their position all on their own with fewer resources (wage increases) that are being diverted to the bottom.
You contradict yourself. You just said that your father pulled himself up on his own.
Phat writes:
All I am saying is not to ignore helping them simply to help the hungriest of the working class.
What a horrible thing to say. You don't want to help the hungriest? You should be ashamed of yourself, as a citizen never mind as a "Christian".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 342 by Phat, posted 08-22-2017 4:33 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 352 of 423 (818113)
08-23-2017 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 344 by Phat
08-23-2017 11:47 AM


Re: Hollowed Out Middle Class
Phat writes:
We need stronger unions! We need to force these corporations to share more of the wealth!
Looks like you're more of a Marxist than I am. As I've mentioned elsewhere, I'm not in favour of corporate taxes at all. They should be used only in a carrot-and-stick approach - e.g. to incentivize environmental friendliness. They should not be used as a major source of revenue.
I believe that the working class and middle class should pay the bulk of the taxes - and they should be paid so that they can afford to do so.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 344 by Phat, posted 08-23-2017 11:47 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 359 by Phat, posted 08-23-2017 4:21 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 354 of 423 (818116)
08-23-2017 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 353 by New Cat's Eye
08-23-2017 3:20 PM


Re: Hollowed Out Middle Class
New Cat's Eye writes:
Everyone has the same opportunity to make their own way.
Obviously not. Some people have parents to put them through college; others have to take care of their sick parents while taking whatever work they can get. That's only one example.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 353 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-23-2017 3:20 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 355 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-23-2017 3:37 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 356 of 423 (818119)
08-23-2017 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 355 by New Cat's Eye
08-23-2017 3:37 PM


Re: Hollowed Out Middle Class
New Cat's Eye writes:
Uh, that's them making their own way...
And it isn't fair....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 355 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-23-2017 3:37 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 358 by Phat, posted 08-23-2017 4:12 PM ringo has replied
 Message 364 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-24-2017 11:21 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 360 of 423 (818125)
08-23-2017 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 358 by Phat
08-23-2017 4:12 PM


Re: Hollowed Out Middle Class
Phat writes:
are you saying it isn't fair that my parents could have sent me to college while yours couldn't?
Of course it isn't fair. Nobody said life was fair but at least try to understand what fairness means.
Phat writes:
You may also know that I take care of my 94-year-old Mom with Alzheimer's at partially my own expense. Is that fair?
See above.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 358 by Phat, posted 08-23-2017 4:12 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 361 of 423 (818126)
08-23-2017 4:29 PM
Reply to: Message 359 by Phat
08-23-2017 4:21 PM


Re: Hollowed Out Middle Class
Phat writes:
If the wealthy own or control 90+% of everything and benefit the most from corporate profits, why not hold their feet to the fire also?
It isn't who benefits from corporate profits that matters. It's who benefits from taxes. The 90+% use the roads most, have the most children in schools, etc. Why should they be beholden to a bunch of rich bastards for those things? Why not give them the dignity of paying their own way?
Phat writes:
The alternative is to tax the middle class at higher rates so that they essentially have little more than the working class.
Your insistence on being above the working class pisses me off.
Phat writes:
Yes, some of us had it easier than others, but by excluding the responsibility of the rich to contribute you are forcing the middle class to become overburdened. Don't you see that?
No, I don't. The working class is more overburdened than the middle class.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 359 by Phat, posted 08-23-2017 4:21 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 362 by Phat, posted 08-23-2017 5:32 PM ringo has replied
 Message 363 by xongsmith, posted 08-23-2017 11:48 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 366 of 423 (818154)
08-24-2017 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 362 by Phat
08-23-2017 5:32 PM


Re: Hollowed Out Middle Class
Phat writes:
So you would have it that there were only two classes? Rich and working?
How do you distinguish yourself from the working class?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 362 by Phat, posted 08-23-2017 5:32 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 369 by Phat, posted 08-24-2017 4:22 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 367 of 423 (818155)
08-24-2017 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 363 by xongsmith
08-23-2017 11:48 PM


Re: Hollowed Out Middle Class
xongsmith writes:
How he could come to that conclusion, when the 0.01% are EXACTLY the ones benefiting.
But they're not.
You should have read the whole post: It's who benefits from the taxes that matters. Who drives on the roads? Or rides buses on the roads or bicyles on the roads or walks on the roads? Who sends their children to the schools? Who uses the libraries? Who uses the sewers?
Edited by ringo, : Removed superfluous words and words.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 363 by xongsmith, posted 08-23-2017 11:48 PM xongsmith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 368 of 423 (818156)
08-24-2017 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 364 by New Cat's Eye
08-24-2017 11:21 AM


Re: Hollowed Out Middle Class
New Cat's Eye writes:
Life isn't fair, but offering minimum wage for a menial job is.
But minimum wages aren't just for "menial" jobs. They're for wherever the employer can get away with exploiting his workers. And they bring all wages down.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 364 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-24-2017 11:21 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
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