Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Can mutation and selection increase information?
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 155 of 222 (817663)
08-19-2017 8:54 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by CRR
08-18-2017 6:02 PM


Re: random and non-random mutations
Only if you're talking about Shannon Information and even Shannon acknowledged that had nothing to do with meaning.
Gosh, you never got around to an operational definition of the kind of information you are talking about.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by CRR, posted 08-18-2017 6:02 PM CRR has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 158 of 222 (817857)
08-21-2017 8:54 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by CRR
08-21-2017 4:37 AM


Re: random and non-random mutations
Think of it this way.
I have a copy of Origin of Species which contains information.
I buy another copy. Do I now have twice as much information? Or 2 copies of the same information?
Depends on your definition of information. What's yours?
I tear a page out of one copy and glue in a page of random numbers. That's a deletion and an insertion. Does that give me more information?
Depends on your definition of information. What's yours?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by CRR, posted 08-21-2017 4:37 AM CRR has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 161 of 222 (817983)
08-22-2017 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 160 by Percy
08-22-2017 10:03 AM


Re: random and non-random mutations
You could sort of use Kolmogorov complexity.
But we all know that CRR will never provide an operational definition of what he's talking about. He doesn't have one and if he did it'd be certain that under some circumstances it increases.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by Percy, posted 08-22-2017 10:03 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 185 of 222 (818336)
08-27-2017 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 184 by Porkncheese
08-27-2017 8:59 AM


The theory of evolution claims that all life originated from 1 cell.
Nope.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by Porkncheese, posted 08-27-2017 8:59 AM Porkncheese has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(1)
Message 214 of 222 (818677)
08-31-2017 8:51 PM
Reply to: Message 211 by CRR
08-31-2017 8:25 PM


Re: Information
But we can all recognise information in everyday life ... and whether there is an increase or not...
Um, well, no. In some circumstances we can, in most of the circumstances of interest in this thread we cannot. You've certainly demonstrated your inability to detect changes in information in biological systems and your inability to objectively discern the direction of the change.
Edited by Admin, : Fix quote.
Edited by JonF, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by CRR, posted 08-31-2017 8:25 PM CRR has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024