"Natural" (plant-based) Health Solutions

I don't want to clutter up the cancer survivors thread but as I keep reading up on nutritional treatments for all kinds of diseases including cancers I keep wanting to talk about the information here. I don't think I have cancer though I do have problems with my health, don't feel very good, tired all the time, overweight and not losing much though a little, have abdominal pain from time to time, and unfortunately also have no real motivation to do anything about it. I get interested in the subject of health solutions nevertheless and although I haven't made any radical changes to my own diet I have here and there incorporated some new ideas, not enough to feel any great change in my life but I keep reading anyway.I mentioned my belief in the value of vegetable juices on the other thread although I don't do those as I should either. Tiredness. Think about it and don't do it. It takes prep work and cleanup and I just don't get going on it. Sometimes I don't even eat a meal because I'm too tired, and then when I'm so hungry I can't stand it another minute I resort to the simple easy solution of making a sandwich of stuff that isn't good for me, and around we go.I don't really want to talk about my own situation here, I just figured I'd have to say something about it on a thread on this subject. In other words I am no example of anything, but I hope I can be useful in digging up some helpful information.I'd really like to discuss the alternative medical plans that have become so popular in recent years. Moose posted something on the thread about diet criticizing Dr. Mercola as some kind of fanatic, the gist of the criticism seeming to be aimed at the idea of "natural" solutions when according to the critic everything is natural when you get down to it.But there really is a meaning to the word in this context that isn't so easily dismissed. It generally refers to eating plant foods with the least amount of processing and pesticides, with or without animal meats. Those who incorporate meat usually emphasize a lack of artificial treatments of the animal such as hormones to increase growth, recommending natural grass-fed beef etc. Sure, hormones are "natural" too but not when they are extracted from their source and applied somewhere else to change the quality of food.I don't particularly follow Mercola but have found useful information at his site just as I find it at many alternative med sites. I don't have any reason to think he's any more fringey than any of the others who teach on this subject that are out there. He's nutrition-oriented as are all of them. They differ from each other on specifics and at this stage you can pretty much just go with whatever seems to work best for you because there are no settled standards.As for cancer cures through nutrition, carrot juice is always up there on the list. This seems to have originated with Max Gerson back in the twenties, got picked up by Jay Kordich who makes it just one of a list of juices for general health. And most recently I've found it as a big part of the program followed by Chris of Chris Beat Cancer. Joe Cross is another juice promoter these days, who did the video "Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead" which I think you can still find at You Tube, about how he lived on nothing but vegetable and fruit juices for two months, lost weight and got off medications.Chris of Chris Beat Cancer is an interesting story because he was diagnosed with Stage 3 colon cancer when only 26 years old. He knew nothing at all about cancer or treatments for it at the time but soon found himself deciding against conventional treatments based on a series of events that occurred. He's a Christian, it turns out, which I didn't know at first, and believes that through prayer God led him to the natural treatments that cured his cancer. But it's of course the diet and the treatment itself that is the main thing here, and that's mostly plant-based eating, mostly raw, and lots of vegetable juices..He tells his story in this interview, starting about 6:20. Around 18:20 he gives a brief description of his diet.In another video he interviews a former oncology nurse who eventually became an advocate of nutrition-based cancer treatment: (I'll have to go find that one)Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Well I just found out something that is encouraging to me. I love juices, I particularly love carrot-celery -beet juice, which I got started on because it's supposed to be good for the liver, and it turns out that is what Chris was taking -- 64 ounces a day, though the beet was just an occasional part of it. Gerson cancer therapy has people drink 104 ounces a day and they insist on making each 8-ounce glass fresh. Chris says he made his 64 ounces all at once in the morning, kept it refrigerated and drank it a glass at a time through the day. Now maybe that isn't helpful to anyone but me but it is very helpful to me to know you don't have to be as strict as Gerson and still get health benefits, and in his case the health benefit was the cure of stage 3 colon cancer. Not alone though, other diet changes as well which I'm continuing to read up on.So far the stuff that doesn't inspire me, in his or any of these alternative therapies, is their emphasis on mental or spiritual practices, particularly Positive Thinking. Leave my head alone. I'm all for prayer of course, and I'm nearly allergic to stress, can't stand that state of mind and go out of my way to avoid it including going back to bed whenever it strikes, so I can go along with those two elements of these systems. But Positive Thinking no, don't mess with my head, don't tell me I have to be all jolly and upbeat when there is no reason for being jolly and upbeat; and please don't prescribe the kind of faith that requires me to say that God is doing something before I know He's done it. Gratitude is great, but that kind of faith is not faith, it's some kind of mental manipulation.That said, I'm all for finding out what kinds of nutritional decisions work and don't work.

Yep and you believe the testimonies or you don't. Enough of them going in the same direction over time should have some persuasive power though.

I'm being seen by a doctor, he knows all my symptoms, he doesn't think it's cancer but he doesn't rule it out completely either. He'll put me through the necessary tests as other things are ruled out.OK yes Chris had surgery at the very beginning. What he rejected was the regime of chemo they wanted to put him on afterward, and that's all he claimed to reject. There was a period of waiting while he was recovering from the surgery and during that time he studied up on alternative therapies and when time came for the chemo he opted out. They also die as a result of the conventional treatments, and there is evidence for that too.That's how the alternative med people feel about conventional med, that they are encouraging people to accept treatments that are poisonous, rarely work and put people through misery. At my age I can afford to make a choice if it did turn out to be cancer and I would definitely not choose the conventional route. It seems to me the other side deserves more of a hearing than it usually gets. I understand why people prefer to trust the doctors, the doctors mean well and want to do the best for the patient, but nobody is forcing them not to trust them, and most of them never hear of any alternatives anyway. All the "alt-med" people are doing is putting out an alternative view of the situation. Granted people with cancer are not in a good position to make decisions, as Chris Wark says of his own situation at the beginning, but I would think it would be better to learn all you can than trust anybody too completely.Of course it matters, it matters a great deal.Most of the people who have chosen the "alt-med" route came to it on their own without being pushed in any way. The push usually comes from those who think they're crazy even to consider giving up on conventional medicine.Here, by the way is the oncology nurse interview I mentioned earlier. Below the video is a list of points on the video where certain topics are discussed so you don't have to watch the whole thing.Here's the video itself:Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Chris said (I think in the interview I linked above) he was told by the doctor that he had a 60% chance of living another five years, if that's what you are talking about, not indefinitely, and that was not "without doing anything," that was with the standard treatments. And when he researched the numbers he found that the 60% is the survival rate for ALL cancers, but that for his colon cancer it's only 28%.I don't think I've heard him say anyone should not take chemo, although he certainly talks about its being a poison, but IIRC he's even said to add the nutrition to it because it will help offset its negative effects on health. Also doctors get money from prescribing chemo and are ostracized for even thinking in terms of nutrition, according to the interview with the former oncology nurse. So it works both ways. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Finally ran across someone agreeing that cannabis oil DOES work as a treatment of cancer. The ex-oncology nurse in the interview I embedded above, at 43:00 on the counter starts talking about the many cures she's witnessed.

Keep in mind we're talking nutrition here, ordinary stuff like carrots and greens. Lots of it, yes, more than anybody would think of eating without some idea that it could be very important for health. I haven't mentioned any odd recommendations, just nutrition, just vegetable juices in particular. There's no point in aiming the big guns against things I'm not discussing. How can there be a problem with carrot juice and big green salads (which I haven't mentioned yet but are a big part of the treatment plan)? Try it and if it doesn't work go back on the chemo. Or do it with the chemo.Vitamin C is another big recommendation, in herculean doses of course, but it's not known to be toxic so what's the problem?As for getting good information I'm impressed with Chris Wark's research, and the oncology nurse's too for that matter. I would like to have all that information in an easily accessible form. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Seems to me that desperation is more likely to lead people to accept the conventional treatments on the established reputation of the medical profession, than the controversial methods of alternative medicine. If you aren't in a position to judge these things, naturally you'll go with the treatment that has the authorities behind it.Certainly the alternative strategies aren't going to be perfect, it's all quite experimental at this stage, and let's say there are some scams out there too although I don't have any reason to think it of anyone in particular -- even so there seems to be enough experience of cures and general health benefits to make it seriously worth considering.Although some say nutrition is part of the doctor's job, the alternative people say it's woefully inadequate, and the medical profession even fights against nutritional treatments that might help.; Such as IV Vitamin C, according to Valerie Warwick the oncology nurse. Chemo takes a lot out of the body and nutrition is more important than ever in that situation to strengthen the immune system, yet it is underused at best.I've never done juicing for any medical purpose, only because I liked it and thought it was good for me, and I never kept it up consistently either. But I did discover that carrot juice would knock out a cold sore on my lip in half the usual time. There's a little anecdote for you.I realize there is more to the alternative systems than basic nutrition, although it is central to them all, and that supplements of all kinds are part of it, and I don't really know much about all that so I assume I'll be reading up on it. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

OK I've got to mention another experience I had that contributes to my current favorable view of alternative med. I spent three weeks in rehab in the summer of 2013 after hip replacement surgery, and the food they gave us was the sort I'd never have touched with a ten foot pole outside that situation, and neither would most of the other patients. My roommate complained incessantly about it. When we once got a real egg for breakfast instead of the horrible egg substitute, I sent the kitchen a passionate note of thanks. The oatmeal was the sweetened stuff, and I never eat oatmeal at home. A glass of sugary juice was part of the breakfast.The fare included the kind of white squishy bread NOBODY eats any more that I know of, and MARGARINE instead of butter, which I've known all my life is far worse for you than any natural fat, being a homogenized oil. Of course salt was restricted while we got lots of sugar. I could eat so little of it I was often hungry after hours and they'd bring me a microwaved cheeseburger, which in my famished state tasted wonderful.There was so much complaining the nutritionist came around to talk to us individually and when I said I never eat those simple carbs at home all she said was "you want to get better, don't you?" And I realized it was a lost cause at that point. And that's how I think about the medical profession's view of nutrition ever since. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

To me the simple carbs point was about health, not weight loss diets, too much sugar which isn't good for anybody. Perhaps you could have made the relevant point better.

Even the bread is "too much sugar" though, would that get across to a nutritionist who thinks the food could help anyone "get better?" The point is the diet is unhealthy, far more likely to make you sick, or even kill you if you have a compromised immune system, than ever make anyone "better." And if the medical profession thinks this kind of food suffices for "nutrition," it proves a crying need for the better knowledge of the "alt-med" people.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

I simply could not eat a lot of it, but of course I had to eat some of it.Bread is a simple carb, it rapidly metabolizes to sugar in your body, that's why I used the term "simple carbs."I'm sure it's about money, so what. If it's defended as nutrition that's a crime, maybe of ignorance of what nutrition is, but it's sad if such unhealthy food is given to sick people. Why they have to be cheap about the food I don't get; it's a very good rehab otherwise (it's not part of the hospital system by the way, and the hospital has better food, at least it's more appetizing; I was on a liquid diet most of the time I was there so didn't get much opportunity to assess it).Most people of your opinion don't bother to find out anything about what's really entailed in the alternative diet strategies. And since you didn't even know what a simple carb is I'm very sure you know next to nothing of what this is all about. If you ever get a cold sore try carrot juice. Maybe that will give you a clue.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Nothing I've read about this recommends anything weird like the stuff Cherrix took.

It's all a matter of whom you believe in the end, even which supposed studies you believe.And why was Wark told after the surgery that he had a 60% chance of living another five years on the standard treatment? (Which he found out applied to all cancer patients, while his colon cancer in reality had a 28% chance.)I'm not objecting to surgery, just to chemotherapy which is so horrible for those who go through it, and die anyway. I count an aunt and a friend, and an acquaintance. The aunt died within a year of her initial diagnosis, the friend took three years to die after a declaration of being cancer-free, the acquaintance died within two or three years, I don't remember; all had conventional treatment and nothing else. Aunt colon cancer, friend breast cancer, acquaintance a tumor in her leg.Another comes to mind, someone I didn't know, but who was well known to the Christian community who all prayed for her, mother of five, doctor's wife, cancer found just before she gave birth to her fifth. She died within a year on conventional treatment. I wonder where these four show up in the statistics?I just remembered a fifth but not enough about the specifics, just that she died soon after anyone knew she had cancer. All were Christians by the way, three of them in my church.ABE: Meanwhile Jay Kordich took Gerson's juice treatment for his bladder cancer as a y7oung man and lived to be 93; a local man did carrot juice and lived 25 years beyond his diagnosis of prostate cancer.Jay Kordich talks about his experience:Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

I don't follow Mercola, why are you carrying on about him? All I said about him was that I've occasionally found useful information on his site when I'm googling for something. I also get information from WebMD and the Mayo Clinic and Josh Axe and others.I've also never heard of Hoxsey except from you but what you mention about animals doesn't seem cruel to me, maybe ineffective, that I don't know, but not cruel.I don't really follow anyone, but I've mostly been reading on Chris Wark's site recently and haven't found any of the weird stuff there. I read some about Gerson because Jay Kordich claimed his treatment cured his bladder cancer, but what I get from all that is the importance of juicing and fresh vegetables and fruits. Gerson includes some stuff I wouldn't follow myself -- enemas and colonics -- but nothing as weird as Cherrix did.There are also some odd philosophies about all this that I don't pay a lot of attention to, which could be a topic of discussion at some point. (Well, my view always takes the Fall into consideration and I don't see even other Christians taking that into account. They tend to talk in terms of how the body was designed to heal itself and they think of plant foods as aiding that natural healing process. That's not entirely different from what I think, but I think more in terms of how the Fall has brought disease and death into the world so that the body's ability to heal is also compromised, but that God still provides healing through plants if we take the time to learn about them and maximize their potentials.)Some sites raise a question like, Does carrot juice heal the herpes blister or does it strengthen the immune system which heals it? Not that it matters really I suppose.Anyway, addressing treatments I'm not addressing or that I know nothing about doesn't exactly further the conversation here.