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Author Topic:   Evidence of the flood
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 126 of 899 (818988)
09-04-2017 10:43 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by Percy
09-04-2017 8:47 AM


I am not a creationist. Creationist do not conduct real science. I believe Creation is possible, more than random evolution. Perhaps we were even created to evolve.
For the inth time, I am not saying there was a flood. I said Harvey the Hawk is direct evidence that part of the story of the great flood is true. Can you debate that maybe?
FYI whether the flood is true or not, is irrelevant to me. The moral of the story is good. I like the topic, that is all. If we are going to discuss the topic, and after reading years worth of Christian bashing, lets at least be honest. There is evidence of a flood, we just choose to ignore it, because there is more evidence there wasn't a flood. Too many people in here say there is NO evidence.
When I watched this video of Harvey, my subjective feelings told me it was God. Made me think of this place, so I posted it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Percy, posted 09-04-2017 8:47 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by Percy, posted 09-05-2017 9:18 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 141 by ringo, posted 09-05-2017 12:15 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 127 of 899 (818989)
09-04-2017 10:46 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by JonF
09-04-2017 8:48 AM


Re: On topic
JonF writes:
Still no one has provided any reason to believe such behavior is widespread.
On the contrary it is very widespread and research on animal behavior regarding this topic goes way back. They tried to use animals to predict natural disasters. Did you know that like only 2 animals were killed in the Indonesian Tsunami? They all ran for higher ground. The animals in the zoo sought shelter long before the wave hit. There has been no significant answer to this. All they can say is animals have some kind of sixth sense, and that we used to have it but lost it. But no proof.
Edited by riVeRraT, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by JonF, posted 09-04-2017 8:48 AM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by JonF, posted 09-05-2017 8:03 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 128 of 899 (818990)
09-04-2017 10:48 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by JonF
09-04-2017 8:45 AM


Re: Close enough to the topic
JonF writes:
Easy. There would be no life on Earth. There's no place the water could have been that wouldn't make the Earth uninhabitable just by being there or by falling
And you can prove this how?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by JonF, posted 09-04-2017 8:45 AM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by JonF, posted 09-05-2017 8:09 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 129 of 899 (818991)
09-04-2017 10:50 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by Phat
09-04-2017 7:24 AM


Re: Conversations With A Cornered Rat
Phat writes:
How has your life been away from here, anyway? Do you still fly the model airplanes?
What made you come back to this frustrating place anyway? (Yeah we missed you)
Life is good. Still fly, and now do racing drones (free style). I work 2 jobs now, I am a directory of Plant Ops, and own an HVAC business. Not much time for anything. Harvey the Hawk brought me back. I will never forget some of the debates that took place here over the flood. Some pretty ridiculous stuff has been said here. I can't wait to come back and read it in 20 years if I am alive.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Phat, posted 09-04-2017 7:24 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 130 of 899 (818992)
09-04-2017 10:55 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by jar
09-04-2017 7:15 AM


Re: On topic
jar writes:
The flood in Houston was expected, is recurring and man made.
LMAO! Climate change made that storm stall didn't it? LMAO It didn't know where to go because CO2.
Not at all. But I also am not part of the Christian Cult of Ignorance.
Right, you have your own cult, I know.
The Biblical Flood stories in the Bible are simply neither factual or historical beyond the fact that they are historical fiction.
You believe in God you say? He created the universe, and He could have hid the (objective)evidence of a flood from us. Which is what I think happened. God wants us to believe by faith, what good then would evidence serve us?
Seeing that you believe in god(small g for you), this is one scenario that could have happened. Saying it didn't happen as absolute is not really faithful, or scientific minded of you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by jar, posted 09-04-2017 7:15 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by jar, posted 09-04-2017 11:56 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 131 of 899 (818993)
09-04-2017 10:58 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by jar
09-04-2017 9:39 AM


Re: correction
jar writes:
Sorry but that is simply incorrect and absurd.
Change leaves evidence.
If a claim is made that an arrow hit the target then the fact that there are no arrow holes in the target is sufficient to conclude "The arrow did not hit the target!"
If a claim is made that there was a world-wide flood during the time humans existed then there must be evidence that there was a world-wide flood during the time humans existed.
The fact that there is evidence of cultures that continued without interruption, living things that existed bore and after the dates attributed to the flood, that there are objects that predate the flood but have never been under water is sufficient to say "There has never been a world-wide flood during the time humans existed."
Change leaves evidence and that's a fact Jack.
And we always are able to see that evidence........said no one ever. I think they sell tricorders on amazon....
hey they do!
https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=tricorder&tag=...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by jar, posted 09-04-2017 9:39 AM jar has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 132 of 899 (818994)
09-04-2017 11:04 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by 14174dm
09-04-2017 5:58 PM


Re: Update on Harvey
1417dm writes:
How would the hawk trapped in a cage know the flood was over. Actually an uninjured hawk would have just flown away from the flooded areas.
IMO the reason for the hawk's actions are pain and lack of food. He ended up in the car as the first place out of the wind he could find. He was unhappy around people (based on the intensity of his glare at everyone) but wasn't able to leave. Notice in the video from the shelter that as he recovered and was fed, he got nastier.
Thank you for the response. Yep that is all possible. But even though he was injured, why would he let a human pet him? That hawk was as gentle as could be. I am slightly aware of bird behavior as I have owned a Parrot for 31 years. I think that hawk would have been nasty, just like all other birds taken in for rehab. Matter of fact they don't want the birds interacting with humans and getting comfortable with us. I know a particular Bald Eagle who can't fly anymore, is injured, and is in captivity for years, and is still nasty towards humans.
As he recovered, just happened to co-inside with the end of the flood. Odd, no? And if he was trapped in a cage, how would he know it is over? I am asking that question.
They never even said what his official injuries were.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by 14174dm, posted 09-04-2017 5:58 PM 14174dm has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 133 of 899 (818996)
09-04-2017 11:09 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by PaulK
09-04-2017 12:28 AM


Re: On topic
Paulk writes:
Well I am not saying that it is evidence against the Flood.
Cool Beans.
So now all you need is a part of the story where Noah takes on animals that just randomly happen to show up because of the rain. Please quote the verses which say that.
Genisis7:20 Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by PaulK, posted 09-04-2017 12:28 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by NoNukes, posted 09-04-2017 11:35 PM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 137 by PaulK, posted 09-05-2017 12:20 AM riVeRraT has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 134 of 899 (818997)
09-04-2017 11:11 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by Coyote
09-03-2017 11:52 PM


Re: Close enough to the topic
Coyote writes:
Nonsense. The claimed global flood during historic times simply did not happen. The evidence against it is absolutely overwhelming, while the mere presence of water and a lost bird is pretty damn flimsy evidence of that such a global flood occurred during historic times.
If we went with your line of reasoning we'd be able to claim evidence for every kooky idea ever. That certainly would not be following the scientific method, nor the guidance of the Enlightenment which says we no longer have to kowtow to religious belief.
Good thing I am not implying that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Coyote, posted 09-03-2017 11:52 PM Coyote has seen this message but not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 142 of 899 (819061)
09-05-2017 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by jar
09-04-2017 11:56 PM


Re: On topic
jar writes:
Climate change almost certainly helped create the storm
That goal post moved rather quickly.
but the flooding was caused by ignorance and greed; on constantly voting down zoning and building regulations.
Agreed.
Then you are marketing a vile, evil, dishonest God
According to the Cult of jar. That's not the way it works jar. You don't take your subjective opinion, about a subjective story, and market said opinion as fact. What you've done is exposed how you think, not how the rest of thinks. Speak for yourself. 2+2=4, but your 2's and my 2's are different.
Part of the evidence that shows there was no world-wide flood during the time humans have existed are the cultures that continue uninterrupted by the Biblical Flood. Part of hiding the evidence then was creating populations that replaced everything that was killed so there was not interruption to the civilizations or even their mythos.
Your God created flood that no one noticed.
If biblical dates are correct. I am not a bible literalist, so it is unimportant to me. Or God could have choose to save those cultures and not tell Noah, or whatever. Like I said it's God, the creator of the universe. He can make a flood happen anyway He wants for whatever purpose He wants.
Yes, we are able to see the evidence.
What evidence? How can you see evidence you don't even know about? Unless you know everything.
Remember, all it takes is one single example of something that must have been effected by the flood but has not been effected.
Or a supernatural God who decided it would be best to hide the evidence from jar.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by jar, posted 09-04-2017 11:56 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by jar, posted 09-05-2017 4:34 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 143 of 899 (819062)
09-05-2017 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by NoNukes
09-04-2017 11:35 PM


Re: On topic
NoNukes writes:
1) That is not a random arrangement.
2) It happened before the Flood not during according to the account.
As stated before, this wasn't a global flood. All we are examining here is the behavior of the animal. In other observances, animals ran for shelter before the flood.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by NoNukes, posted 09-04-2017 11:35 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 464 by NoNukes, posted 09-13-2017 8:14 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 144 of 899 (819063)
09-05-2017 4:28 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by JonF
09-05-2017 8:03 AM


Re: On topic
JonF writes:
Assertions are not evidence.
Or fact. Perhaps you meant that for jar?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by JonF, posted 09-05-2017 8:03 AM JonF has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 145 of 899 (819064)
09-05-2017 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by JonF
09-05-2017 8:09 AM


Re: Close enough to the topic
JonF writes:
Thermodynamics. You may not realize that steam and water were the drivers of the industrial revolution. We know a lot about water in various states. If the water was in the atmosphere the temperature and pressure required to keep it there would make the Earth uninhabitable. If the water came from outside the atmosphere the heat released by loss of potential energy would make the Earth uninhabitable. Except, of course, for a few thermophilic bacteria.
OMG yes! Thank you for saying this. This reminds of years ago, and who knows it may have even been you. Someone calculated the amount of friction would heat the water up as it fell to raise the temperature so high as to cause life to cease to exist.
Congratulations bro, you just explained hail. lmao.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by JonF, posted 09-05-2017 8:09 AM JonF has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 147 of 899 (819066)
09-05-2017 4:36 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by Percy
09-05-2017 9:18 AM


percy writes:
The CRS (Creation Research Society) and the Discovery Institute and Steve Austin and Jonathan Wells and Michael Behe and Stephen Meyer and William Dembski and (throwing him in just for fun) Kent Hovind would disagree with you.
About what? That I am not a creationist, or that they are not conducting real science? Either way who gives a rats ass what they think.
I don't debate the absurdly ridiculous. "Oh, look, it's raining, evidence of the flood."
Ummm, let me check, nope I never said that. So was this statement another one of your unattacks on my character? Me thinks so.
If you pick and choose your evidence then anything can seem true.
Who's picking and choosing? Not me, you are.
Seashells on a mountain top are evidence of the flood, as long as you ignore all the other evidence.
Until the other evidence changes or new evidence is found. Aren't we always supposed to be on the look out for a better explanation? Who's picking and choosing now? Who has the closed mind now? Words are important.
Your ability to assemble a grouping of incomplete evidence doesn't make the flood any less impossible than it already is.
Incomplete evidence can do the same thing, as does lack of knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by Percy, posted 09-05-2017 9:18 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by Percy, posted 09-05-2017 6:56 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 148 of 899 (819067)
09-05-2017 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by ringo
09-05-2017 12:15 PM


ringo writes:
Then you're a creationist. You just don't believe creationism is science.
What am I if I believe we were created to evolve through natural processes?
Edited by riVeRraT, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by ringo, posted 09-05-2017 12:15 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by Tangle, posted 09-05-2017 5:01 PM riVeRraT has not replied
 Message 166 by ringo, posted 09-06-2017 3:20 PM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 470 by NoNukes, posted 09-13-2017 8:37 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
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