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Author | Topic: Evidence of the flood | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22500 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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Faith writes: What if there is a God who made it all... Well, in that case, since this thread is titled Evidence of the flood, I presume you'd present your evidence for God creating the flood.
...and your atheistic science just completely misses it? There's no such thing as atheistic science, just as there's no such thing as atheistic car repair or atheistic fry cooking. This site exists to discuss the claim that creation science *is* science, in the real sense of the word. Claims of "God Did It" lose the debate out of hand, unless one begins introducing scientific evidence of God. But not here, because this thread is about Evidence of the flood. If any participants begin introducing serious scientific flood evidence (not Harvey the Hawk) then I'll move the thread to Geology and the Great Flood. --Percy
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
What if there is a God who made it all and your atheistic science just completely misses it? (First it should be agnostic science, because it neither validates nor disproves god/s -- because it can't test non-natural phenomena by definition.) What if there is a God/s who made it all, ... ... the ancient earth and the even older universe, with all the laws of physics and chemistry etc -- created so that life would form and evolve -- and your personal delusion completely misses it? What if it is all illusion? Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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There is not just a point but rather a necessity. It is essential to continue presenting reality when fantasies are presented as fact; if for no other reason then the fact that someone who is honest and not willfully ignorant may well read the posts and realize that what they have been told is utter nonsense. Indeed, when participants are talking past each other, as is almost always the case with faith, then the audience are those behind them in the wings. Thanks for the reminderby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Tangle Member Posts: 9510 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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RAZD writes: (First it should be agnostic science, because it neither validates nor disproves god/s -- because it can't test non-natural phenomena by definition.) Science doesn't have or require an adjective. In fact to add one destroys its value as a methodology.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Why are you addressing me about this? I was answering Coyote who said all science is atheistic and he was responding to an ongoing discussion about that question. I simply answered Coyote's point and what I said has nothing to do with anything else.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I was answering Coyote. Read in context.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I'm repeating either that there is evidence for the Flood or the evidence itself in this series of posts, and since I'm getting back assertions that there is no evidence blah blah blah I think my responses are quite in order.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
When He said "Blessed are those who did not see and yet believed" He was indeed saying that would have been preferable. We are all in that position now, we are not going to get Thomas' special audience, so it is far better to believe the witnesses than stubbornly refuse to believe unless we are given direct proof. You are wrong, Jesus WAS saying it would have been better.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2134 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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I was answering Coyote who said all science is atheistic... It was pointed out that science is agnostic, rather than atheistic. I agree that atheistic is not the best term. Perhaps "secular" would be a more appropriate term:Secular: of or relating to worldly things or to things that are not regarded as religious, spiritual, or sacred; temporal Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
But any of those terms imply that God is left out of the scientific reckoning so my question still is What if there is a God who made it all and science is ignoring Him?
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2134 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
But any of those terms imply that God is left out of the scientific reckoning so my question still is What if there is a God who made it all and science is ignoring Him? And what tools does science wield that would detect gods?Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
And what tools does science wield that would detect gods? None of course, which is one of the themes of this thread. God is known by other means than physical science because He Himself is not physical. But the question still stands, what if He exists and He made the whole physical universe and science is ignoring Him? You're going to get a lot of things wrong. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: I'm repeating either that there is evidence for the Flood or the evidence itself in this series of posts, and since I'm getting back assertions that there is no evidence blah blah blah I think my responses are quite in order. You keep making that claim yet fail to actually present any evidence or even any explanation of how a flood could actually do what is seen in ANY evidence that others have presented or that has be found over the last several hundred years. The Biblical flood never happened. Special creation never happened. The Fall never happened. The Earth is billions of years old. Reality says you are wrong. The Bible says you are wrong.
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: But any of those terms imply that God is left out of the scientific reckoning so my question still is What if there is a God who made it all and science is ignoring Him? Utterly unnecessary suppositions should be left out. Edited by jar, : fix sub-title
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
Repeating part of my previous message:
Minnemooseus, in message 219 writes: Faith, in message 216 writes: The evidence doesn't show repeated local floods at all, the strata are way too consistent for that, as are the fossils. A short argument, without getting into the countless other details outside of your one, one year flood model - The evidence DOES show repeated major sea transgressions and regressions, none which covered all the land surface, at least (maybe) way back in the pre-Cambrian. Faith, replying to message 219 in message 224 writes: The evidence is no doubt some completely circumstantial facts that are imaginatively but falsely interpreted into seas. The evidence of major sea transgressions and regressions are the vast areas of (pretty) consistent strata that is your primary evidence for your own "great flood". Let's call these major sea transgressions and regressions the "pretty big floods (but not the great flood)". And you can find multiple incidences of strata resulting from individual "pretty big floods", one above the other, quite possibly with other non-marine sediments etc. in between the "pretty big flood" events. AT THIS POINT I WAS GOING TO PUT IN THAT WONDERFUL WALTHER'S LAW GRAPHIC, BUT IT HAS BEEN LOST TO THE DEMISE OF FREE PHOTOBUCKET. If you can remember that Walther's Law graphic's stratigraphy, imagine having multiples of that diagram's stratigraphy stacked on top of each other. That is a diagrammatic representation of what is actually found in the geologic strata. Critiques by other real geologists also most welcome. Moose Edited by Minnemooseus, : Tiny tweak. Edited by Minnemooseus, : Another tiny tweak.
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