True knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing

quote:

---

Well, the only thing really is that the Linnaean ranks and the cladistic system are not interchangeable, as the former often includes paraphyletic taxa as a matter of course. Sure it works here but only because there's very few nodes. But it's no big deal. Not sure how Lecointre and Le Guyader address this issue.

​

I think there's some uncertainty as to whether Sahelanthropus is closer to the human or the chimp line, or maybe a common ancestor of both; I would just make it an unresolved trichotomy like this

​

Hominini (tribe)
|--Sahelanthropus
|--Panina (subtribe)
`--Hominina (subtribe)

​

at least until further fossil remains come up

---

Archonta
│
└─Primates MH
├─Strepsirhini MH
│ ├─Lorisiformes
│ └─Lemuriformes
│   ├─Indrioidea MH
│   └─Lemuroidea
└─┬─Adapiformes X
└─┬─Darwinius X
└─Haplorhini
├─Tarsiiformes MH
└─Anthropoidea MH
├─Platyrrhini ToL
└─Catarrhini
├─Cercopithecidae (baboon)
└─Hominoidae (superfamily)
├─Proconsul X
└─┬─Kenyapithecus X
└─┬─Hylobatidae (gibbons)
└─Hominidae (family)
├─Dryopithecus X
└─┬─Pierolapithecus X
└─┬─Ponginae (family)
│ ╞═Sivapithecus X
│ ├─Gigantopithecus X
│ └─Pongo (orangutans)
└─Homininae (subfamily)
├─Samburupithecus X
├─Nakalipithecus X
└─┬─Gorillini (tribe)
│ ├─Chororapithecus X
│ └─Gorilla (gorillas)
└─Hominini (tribe)
└─┬?─Sahelanthropus X (possible common ancestor)
├─Panina (subtribe)
│ └─┬─Pan troglodytes (chimpanzee)
│   └─Pan paniscus (bonobos)
└─Hominina (subtribe)
├─Orrorin tugenensis
├─Ardipithecus X
└─┬─Australopithecus afarensis X
├?─Paranthropus aethiopicus (if descended from A afarensis) X 
├─Australopithecus garhi X 
└─┬─Australopithecus africanus X
└─┬─Paranthropus X
│ ├?─Paranthropus aethiopicus X
│ └─┬─Paranthropus robustus X
│   └─Paranthropus boisei X
└─┬─Kenyanthropus X
└─Homo
├─Homo habilis X
╘═╤═Homo erectus X
│ └─Homo floresiensis X
╘═╤═Homo heidelbergensis X
└─┬─Homo neanderthalensis X
└─Homo sapiens

Archonta
│
└─Primates MH
├─Strepsirhini MH
│ ├─Lorisiformes
│ └─Lemuriformes
│   ├─Indrioidea MH
│   └─Lemuroidea
└─┬─Adapiformes X
└─┬─Darwinius X
└─Haplorhini
├─Tarsiiformes MH
└─Anthropoidea MH
├─Platyrrhini ToL
└─Catarrhini
├─Cercopithecidae
│ └─Papionini (baboons)
│   ├─Papio hamadryas
│   ├─Papio papio
│   ├─Papio anubis
│   ├─Papio cynocephalus
│   └─Papio ursinus
└─Hominoidae (superfamily)
├─Proconsul X
└─┬─Kenyapithecus X
└─┬─Hylobatidae(gibbons)
│ ├─Hylobates
│ │ ├─Hylobates lar
│ │ ├─Hylobates agilis
│ │ ├─Hylobates albibarbis
│ │ ├─Hylobates muelleri
│ │ ├─Hylobates moloch
│ │ ├─Hylobates pileatus
│ │ └─Hylobates klossii
│ ├─Hoolock
│ │ ├─Hoolock hoolock
│ │ ├─Hoolock leuconedys
│ │ └─Hoolock tianxing
│ ├─Nomascus
│ │ ├─Nomascus concolor
│ │ ├─Nomascus gabriellae
│ │ ├─Nomascus leucogenys
│ │ └─Nomascus nasutus
│ └─Symphalangus
│   └─Symphalangus syndactylus
└─Hominidae (family)
├─Dryopithecus X
└─┬─Pierolapithecus X
└─┬─Ponginae (family)
│ ╞═Sivapithecus X
│ ├─Gigantopithecus X
│ └─Pongo (orangutans)
│   ├─Pongo borneo
│   ├─Pongo pygmaeus
│   ├─Pongo abelii
│   └─Pongo hooijeri
└─Homininae (subfamily)
├─Samburupithecus X
├─Nakalipithecus X
└─┬─Gorillini (tribe)
│ ├─Chororapithecus X
│ └─Gorilla (gorillas)
│   ├─Gorilla gorilla
│   └─Gorilla beringei
└─Hominini (tribe)
└─┬?─Sahelanthropus X (possible common ancestor)
├─Panina (subtribe)
│ └─┬─Pan troglodytes (chimpanzee)
│   └─Pan paniscus (bonobos)
└─Hominina (subtribe)
├─Orrorin tugenensis
├─Ardipithecus X
└─┬─Australopithecus afarensis X
├?─Paranthropus aethiopicus (if descended from A afarensis) X 
├─Australopithecus garhi X 
└─┬─Australopithecus africanus X
└─┬─Paranthropus X
│ ├?─Paranthropus aethiopicus X
│ └─┬─Paranthropus robustus X
│   └─Paranthropus boisei X
└─┬─Kenyanthropus X
└─Homo
├─Homo habilis X
╘═╤═Homo erectus X
│ └─Homo floresiensis X
╘═╤═Homo heidelbergensis X
└─┬─Homo neanderthalensis X
└─Homo sapiens

Archonta
│
└─Primates MH
└─Strepsirhini MH
├─Lorisiformes
├─Lemuriformes
│  ├─Indrioidea MH
│  └─Lemuroidea
├─Adapiformes X
│ └─Darwinius X
└─Haplorhini
├─Tarsiiformes MH
└─Simiiformes (or Anthropoidea)
├─Platyrrhini ToL
└─Catarrhini
├─Cercopithecidae
│ └─Papionini (baboons)
│   ├─Papio hamadryas
│   ├─Papio papio
│   ├─Papio anubis
│   ├─Papio cynocephalus
│   └─Papio ursinus
└─Hominoidea (superfamily)
├─Proconsul X
└─┬─Kenyapithecus X
└─┬─Hylobatidae(gibbons)
│ ├─Hylobates
│ │ ├─Hylobates lar
│ │ ├─Hylobates agilis
│ │ ├─Hylobates albibarbis
│ │ ├─Hylobates muelleri
│ │ ├─Hylobates moloch
│ │ ├─Hylobates pileatus
│ │ └─Hylobates klossii
│ ├─Hoolock
│ │ ├─Hoolock hoolock
│ │ ├─Hoolock leuconedys
│ │ └─Hoolock tianxing
│ ├─Nomascus
│ │ ├─Nomascus concolor
│ │ ├─Nomascus gabriellae
│ │ ├─Nomascus leucogenys
│ │ └─Nomascus nasutus
│ └─Symphalangus
│   └─Symphalangus syndactylus
└─Hominidae (family)
├─Dryopithecus X
└─┬─Pierolapithecus X
└─┬─Ponginae (family)
│ ╞═Sivapithecus X
│ ├─Gigantopithecus X
│ └─Pongo (orangutans)
│   ├─Pongo borneo
│   ├─Pongo pygmaeus
│   ├─Pongo abelii
│   └─Pongo hooijeri
└─Homininae (subfamily)
├─Samburupithecus X
├─Nakalipithecus X
└─┬─Gorillini (tribe)
│ ├─Chororapithecus X
│ └─Gorilla (gorillas)
│   ├─Gorilla gorilla
│   └─Gorilla beringei
└─Hominini (tribe)
└─┬?─Sahelanthropus X (possible common ancestor)
├─Panina (subtribe)
│ └─┬─Pan troglodytes (chimpanzee)
│   └─Pan paniscus (bonobos)
└─Hominina (subtribe)
├─Orrorin tugenensis
├─Ardipithecus X
└─┬─Australopithecus afarensis X
├?─Paranthropus aethiopicus (if descended from A afarensis) X 
├─Australopithecus garhi X 
└─┬─Australopithecus africanus X
└─┬─Paranthropus X
│ ├?─Paranthropus aethiopicus X
│ └─┬─Paranthropus robustus X
│   └─Paranthropus boisei X
└─┬─Kenyanthropus X
└─Homo
├─Homo habilis X
╘═╤═Homo erectus X
│ └─Homo floresiensis X
╘═╤═Homo heidelbergensis X
└─┬─Homo neanderthalensis X
└─Homo sapiens

quote:

---

"You can see the kind of controversies that taxonomists argue about - name precedence and conformation to naming conventions is always a hot issue."

​

You can say that again, HBD. Though, I do think that, if you're going to "play the game", then you should know the rules and follow them. Though you do have to consider the role of the methodological hangups of paleoanthropology in this: Just a moment... . I hear things have improved somewhat recently.

​

Tangentially, you might want to look into the literature yourself, RAZD, instead of relying on us to do the interpreting. Can't say I remember any quoting of scientific papers in that discussion, only tertiary references (like Wikipedia). I did notice the posts about geochronology in your FB timeline did include references to the primary literature.

​

"Paranthropus aethiopicus (if descended from A afarensis)"

​

If that's the intent then it isn't depicted correctly. Did some editing of my own:

​

---

Archonta
│
└─Primates MH
└─Strepsirhini MH
├─Lorisiformes
├─Lemuriformes
│  ├─Indrioidea MH
│  └─Lemuroidea
├─Adapiformes X
│ └─Darwinius X
└─Haplorhini
├─Tarsiiformes MH
└─Simiiformes (or Anthropoidea)
├─Platyrrhini ToL
└─Catarrhini
├─Cercopithecidae
│ └─Papionini (baboons)
│   ├─Papio hamadryas
│   ├─Papio papio
│   ├─Papio anubis
│   ├─Papio cynocephalus
│   └─Papio ursinus
└─Hominoidea (superfamily)
├─Proconsul X
└─┬─Kenyapithecus X
└─┬─Hylobatidae (gibbons)
│ ├─Hylobates
│ │ ├─Hylobates lar
│ │ ├─Hylobates agilis
│ │ ├─Hylobates albibarbis
│ │ ├─Hylobates muelleri
│ │ ├─Hylobates moloch
│ │ ├─Hylobates pileatus
│ │ └─Hylobates klossii
│ ├─Hoolock
│ │ ├─Hoolock hoolock
│ │ ├─Hoolock leuconedys
│ │ └─Hoolock tianxing
│ ├─Nomascus
│ │ ├─Nomascus concolor
│ │ ├─Nomascus gabriellae
│ │ ├─Nomascus leucogenys
│ │ └─Nomascus nasutus
│ └─Symphalangus
│   └─Symphalangus syndactylus
└─Hominidae (family)
├─Dryopithecus X
└─┬─Pierolapithecus X
└─┬─Ponginae (family)
│ ╞═Sivapithecus X
│ ├─Gigantopithecus X
│ └─Pongo (orangutans)
│   ├─Pongo borneo
│   ├─Pongo pygmaeus
│   ├─Pongo abelii
│   └─Pongo hooijeri
└─Homininae (subfamily)
├─Samburupithecus X
├─Nakalipithecus X
└─┬─Gorillini (tribe)
│ ├─Chororapithecus X
│ └─Gorilla (gorillas)
│   ├─Gorilla gorilla
│   └─Gorilla beringei
└─Hominini (tribe)
└─┬?─Sahelanthropus X (possible common ancestor)
├─Panina (subtribe)
│ └─┬─Pan troglodytes (chimpanzee)
│   └─Pan paniscus (bonobos)
└─Hominina (subtribe)
├─Orrorin tugenensis
├─Ardipithecus X
└─┬─Australopithecus afarensis X
│ └?─Paranthropus aethiopicus (if descended from A afarensis) X
├─Australopithecus garhi X
└─┬─Australopithecus africanus X
└─┬─Paranthropus X
│ ├?─Paranthropus aethiopicus X (alternate location)
│ └─┬─Paranthropus robustus X
│   └─Paranthropus boisei X
└─┬─Kenyanthropus X
└─Homo
├─Homo habilis X
╘═╤═Homo erectus X
│ └─Homo floresiensis X
╘═╤═Homo heidelbergensis X
└─┬─Homo neanderthalensis X
└─Homo sapiens

... your tree gives the impression baboons are the only Old World monkey. I tried to edit it but for some reason cannot get the branches to line up properly.

​

Still, if people thought palaeos diagrams are hard to read - see what happens when I draw it!

​

 ...