Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Evidence of the flood
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 497 of 899 (819713)
09-14-2017 7:01 AM


Where there is evidence and where there is only poor evidence
There is conclusive and overwhelming evidence that there has never been a world-wide flood at any time when humans existed.
There is no evidence that there has ever been a world-wide flood during any time when humans existed except several contradictory and mutually exclusive stories from unreliable anonymous testimony.
There is conclusive and overwhelming evidence that the Earth is old.
There is no evidence that the Earth is young except calculations based solely on unreliable anonymous testimony.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(3)
Message 508 of 899 (819727)
09-14-2017 9:34 AM


again, what is the evidence.
Back when the thread was in summation mode in Message 497 I posted:
quote:
There is conclusive and overwhelming evidence that there has never been a world-wide flood at any time when humans existed.
There is no evidence that there has ever been a world-wide flood during any time when humans existed except several contradictory and mutually exclusive stories from unreliable anonymous testimony.
There is conclusive and overwhelming evidence that the Earth is old.
There is no evidence that the Earth is young except calculations based solely on unreliable anonymous testimony.
While that is still a reasonable summary of the thread I think it worthwhile to expand somewhat on what constitutes good evidence.
A fossil itself is not good evidence for the fact that biological critters evolved over time. What is evidence of the fact of evolution are the patterns found in the fossil collections; that certain forms are always found in a particular order from oldest to youngest samples and that the items change in a consistent way over the lineage.
No single fossil or even bunch of fossils are good evidence of evolution but rather the accumulation of data points show a pattern that is not just good but overwhelming evidence of the fact that living things evolved over time.
So far the ONLY explanation for that evidence is the Theory of Evolution and it in fact does explain what is seen in reality.
In addition, as newer technologies have been developed every single technology has confirmed what was seen in the evidence.
A perfect example is the recent discovery of how DNA is organized which provided conclusive support for what had been suggested and went on to show the model, method, process, procedure and mechanism of duplication and modification that resulted in changes to the biological organism.
In geology it is again the sum of the data points rather than any single data point that shows conclusively that the Earth is old.
In the case of the Green River Varves there is a known and observed model, method, process, procedure and mechanism that creates similar layers and that is seasonal changes in plant growth, rainfall and no alternative model, method, mechanism, process or procedure as been presented or observed that would do the same thing.
The example of the Oklo Reactor and uranium halos and tree rings and ice cores and mountain creation and mountain weathering all also provide support for the fact that the Earth is old and the processes that happened in the past are the same processes that happen now.
In the case of the world-wide flood it is even simpler. If a claim is made that the whole world was flooded at one time and for one year, if ANY site or item is found that did not suffer from the flood then that is overwhelming evidence that there was no flood at that location. One such location is sufficient to conclude the flood was not world-wide. As more and more and more data points accumulate that show overwhelmingly that many locations did not get flooded it becomes overwhelmingly obvious that if there was a flood it was local in duration and extent.
And again, that is what we see today. Parts of Texas get flooded. Most of Texas is not flooded. Parts of Florida get flooded but other parts do not get flooded.
What happens today is what happened in the past. What happened in the past is what is happening today.
Societies, cultures, technologies, art, all of the mythos of an area or mileau continue. We do NOT see any abrupt discontinuation of any areas culture that points to the same period of time and shows the existing culture being replaced by one radiating out from the Middle East.
If the Biblical flood actually happened then what we must see is a disruption of every society on Earth happening at the same time and then remaining in that state until Middle Eastern immigrants arrive.
There is no evidence of that.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(3)
Message 603 of 899 (819839)
09-14-2017 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 600 by Faith
09-14-2017 5:45 PM


Stille trying to help you Faith.
Faith writes:
I DON'T THINK IN TERMS OF "AGES," PERHAPS YOU NEED TO REPHRASE YOUR QUESTION
And that is part of your problem Faith but ignorance can be cured.
Back when the thread was in summation mode in Message 497 I posted:
quote:
There is conclusive and overwhelming evidence that there has never been a world-wide flood at any time when humans existed.
There is no evidence that there has ever been a world-wide flood during any time when humans existed except several contradictory and mutually exclusive stories from unreliable anonymous testimony.
There is conclusive and overwhelming evidence that the Earth is old.
There is no evidence that the Earth is young except calculations based solely on unreliable anonymous testimony.
While that is still a reasonable summary of the thread I think it worthwhile to expand somewhat on what constitutes good evidence.
A fossil itself is not good evidence for the fact that biological critters evolved over time. What is evidence of the fact of evolution are the patterns found in the fossil collections; that certain forms are always found in a particular order from oldest to youngest samples and that the items change in a consistent way over the lineage.
No single fossil or even bunch of fossils are good evidence of evolution but rather the accumulation of data points show a pattern that is not just good but overwhelming evidence of the fact that living things evolved over time.
So far the ONLY explanation for that evidence is the Theory of Evolution and it in fact does explain what is seen in reality.
In addition, as newer technologies have been developed every single technology has confirmed what was seen in the evidence.
A perfect example is the recent discovery of how DNA is organized which provided conclusive support for what had been suggested and went on to show the model, method, process, procedure and mechanism of duplication and modification that resulted in changes to the biological organism.
In geology it is again the sum of the data points rather than any single data point that shows conclusively that the Earth is old.
In the case of the Green River Varves there is a known and observed model, method, process, procedure and mechanism that creates similar layers and that is seasonal changes in plant growth, rainfall and no alternative model, method, mechanism, process or procedure as been presented or observed that would do the same thing.
The example of the Oklo Reactor and uranium halos and tree rings and ice cores and mountain creation and mountain weathering all also provide support for the fact that the Earth is old and the processes that happened in the past are the same processes that happen now.
In the case of the world-wide flood it is even simpler. If a claim is made that the whole world was flooded at one time and for one year, if ANY site or item is found that did not suffer from the flood then that is overwhelming evidence that there was no flood at that location. One such location is sufficient to conclude the flood was not world-wide. As more and more and more data points accumulate that show overwhelmingly that many locations did not get flooded it becomes overwhelmingly obvious that if there was a flood it was local in duration and extent.
And again, that is what we see today. Parts of Texas get flooded. Most of Texas is not flooded. Parts of Florida get flooded but other parts do not get flooded.
What happens today is what happened in the past. What happened in the past is what is happening today.
Societies, cultures, technologies, art, all of the mythos of an area or mileau continue. We do NOT see any abrupt discontinuation of any areas culture that points to the same period of time and shows the existing culture being replaced by one radiating out from the Middle East.
If the Biblical flood actually happened then what we must see is a disruption of every society on Earth happening at the same time and then remaining in that state until Middle Eastern immigrants arrive.
There is no evidence of that.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 600 by Faith, posted 09-14-2017 5:45 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 605 by Faith, posted 09-14-2017 5:50 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 608 of 899 (819844)
09-14-2017 5:54 PM
Reply to: Message 605 by Faith
09-14-2017 5:50 PM


Re: Still trying to help you Faith.
Faith writes:
ONCE IT IS SHOWN THAT THE STRATA WERE ALL LAID DOWN RAPIDLY AND NOT OVER HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF YEARS, YOUR FOSSIL ORDER COLLAPSES
Except Faith, you (and no one else in the whole world either) has ever shown that or provided a model, method, mechanism, process or procedure that could possibly do that.
The fact remains Faith. The existing models do explain what is seen while you have never presented anything like a model, method, mechanism, process or procedure that can explain ANYTHING that is seen in reality.
But we will continue trying to help you.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 605 by Faith, posted 09-14-2017 5:50 PM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 635 of 899 (819873)
09-14-2017 7:21 PM
Reply to: Message 633 by Faith
09-14-2017 7:16 PM


What is the model, method, mechanism, process or procedure?
Faith writes:
The strata were all deposited one after another in rapid succession during the Flood and that represents the entire extent of the Geo Time Scale everywhere.
What is the model, method, mechanism, process or procedure for your flud to deposit millions of alternating layers of fine silt covered by coarser silt?
Someone may have asked that question once or twice before.
Edited by jar, : appalin spallin, there is no 0 in millions

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 633 by Faith, posted 09-14-2017 7:16 PM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 640 of 899 (819880)
09-14-2017 7:29 PM
Reply to: Message 638 by Faith
09-14-2017 7:25 PM


What is the model, method, mechanism, process or procedure for your flud
What is the model, method, mechanism, process or procedure for your flud to deposit millions of alternating layers of fine silt covered by coarser silt?
Someone may have asked that question once or twice before.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 638 by Faith, posted 09-14-2017 7:25 PM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 643 of 899 (819885)
09-14-2017 7:45 PM
Reply to: Message 642 by Faith
09-14-2017 7:31 PM


Before you run away again...
What is the model, method, mechanism, process or procedure for your flud to deposit millions of alternating layers of fine silt covered by coarser silt?
Someone may have asked that question once or twice before.
Please understand that the question will still be waiting for your answer when you try claiming the flud did something.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 642 by Faith, posted 09-14-2017 7:31 PM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 661 of 899 (819917)
09-15-2017 8:42 AM
Reply to: Message 656 by Faith
09-15-2017 8:02 AM


model, method, mechanism, process or procedure
What is the model, method, mechanism, process or procedure for your flud to deposit millions of alternating layers of fine silt covered by coarser silt?
Someone may have asked that question once or twice before.
Please understand that the question will still be waiting for your answer when you try claiming the flud did something.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 656 by Faith, posted 09-15-2017 8:02 AM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 663 of 899 (819919)
09-15-2017 8:43 AM
Reply to: Message 658 by Faith
09-15-2017 8:06 AM


model, method, mechanism, process or procedure
What is the model, method, mechanism, process or procedure Faith?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 658 by Faith, posted 09-15-2017 8:06 AM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 664 of 899 (819921)
09-15-2017 8:45 AM
Reply to: Message 659 by Faith
09-15-2017 8:12 AM


Re: A charming fat fish proves radiometic dating is false cuz the varves aren't annual
Faith writes:
ALL THE STRATA ARE THE SAME IN FORM, THIS IS SHOWN IN EVERY CASE, SO IF YOU CLAIM THE COLUMN IS ONGOING ALL NEW LAYERS HAVE TO CONFORM TO THE OLD.
What is the model, method, mechanism, process or procedure that will allow your flud to lay down millions of alternating layers of fine and the coarser silt?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 659 by Faith, posted 09-15-2017 8:12 AM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 668 of 899 (819925)
09-15-2017 8:51 AM
Reply to: Message 665 by Pressie
09-15-2017 8:47 AM


Rock Kind
Remember, sandstone and granite and coal and salt and shale and mudstone and aeolian deposits and marine deposits and quartz and limestone are all the same "kind"; rock kind.
Edited by jar, : fix sub-title

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 665 by Pressie, posted 09-15-2017 8:47 AM Pressie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 670 by Pressie, posted 09-15-2017 8:57 AM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 677 of 899 (820002)
09-15-2017 4:08 PM
Reply to: Message 674 by Faith
09-15-2017 3:25 PM


Re: A charming fat fish proves radiometic dating is false cuz the varves aren't annual
What is the model, method, mechanism, process or procedure that will allow your flud to lay down millions of alternating layers of fine and the coarser silt?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 674 by Faith, posted 09-15-2017 3:25 PM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 678 of 899 (820003)
09-15-2017 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 675 by Faith
09-15-2017 3:29 PM


Re: strat column
What is the model, method, mechanism, process or procedure that will allow your flud to lay down millions of alternating layers of fine and the coarser silt?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 675 by Faith, posted 09-15-2017 3:29 PM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 679 of 899 (820004)
09-15-2017 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 676 by Faith
09-15-2017 3:34 PM


Re: STRATA
What is the model, method, mechanism, process or procedure that will allow your flud to lay down millions of alternating layers of fine and the coarser silt?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 676 by Faith, posted 09-15-2017 3:34 PM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 686 of 899 (820016)
09-15-2017 6:55 PM
Reply to: Message 685 by Faith
09-15-2017 6:44 PM


Re: strata continuing
What is the model, method, mechanism, process or procedure that will allow your flud to lay down millions of alternating layers of fine and the coarser silt?
The question remains Faith.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 685 by Faith, posted 09-15-2017 6:44 PM Faith has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024