Presuppositionalism

Because for one thing the human mind likely would never have invented the God of scripture. The prevailing description in America is not the right One.Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

What about Jesus? Who do you say He is?Yes, you claim He was human while on earth.Yes, you claim that He is (so far) a failed messiah.Yet you claim the Nicene Creed.So now that GOD raised Him from the dead, who is He to you?

I get frustrated,but know when I've been bested. Perhaps I put too much importance into winning arguments and not enough on what the God I believe in can or will do.At any rate I cannot prove that He exists. So in essence I am talking then about a character invention of my mind. Got it. This is tough to do. I feel that I have failed God if I reduce Him to simply an imagination within my mind. I can say that...but its not easy to include mine within that list. And I don't believe that all of them are made up though I have no way to convince or prove otherwise. OK you win. Maybe I can beat you at chess later on.... I suppose I cant change anyone's mind on this then, eh? For one thing, I believe that He loves me. Cares for me. None of the other gods have done this. If my God were simply an invention of my mind, where do I feel the love coming from? Because it gets lonely just staying in church praying for people.

I am not a moral relativist. Relativism is a poison in the intellectual arena. What makes me think mine is the right one? Because I believe in an absolute. I dont buy into this idea that what is right for you is on you and what is right for the next guy is up to him.Relativism makes each of us responsible for deciding what is right and judges no one on their choice....but ultimately I believe there is an absolute standard upon which all relative judgments and decisions will be measured against.Do I know whether I have the inside info on this absolute standard? No. Do I believe that I do? Yes. Could I be wrong? Absolutely. But There is an absolute.

I like people. Only a monk is content to just be with God....I guess i'm not a monk.Anyway...steering back towards this topic of Presuppositionalism...
I can see the logic that your views have that mine don't...and though you are correct in that there is absence of evidence, I wont personally believe in evidence of absence as you apparently were eager to do. I will agree that for the purposes of a logical argument you have won, I wont allow my belief to follow evidence. It is sheer folly to think that human wisdom is superior to any concept of a God. Ringo seems to think that evidence should be the "gold standard" in concluding any argument...but to simply say--as you are eager to do---that He doesn't exist is not my style. Perhaps I am more eager for him to exist than you are. In fact I think I am.Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Perhaps. But after all is said and done, it is only your opinion that can matter or be of any value to you. I would argue that my opinion--my belief---is as much of a standard to me as anything else.

Except we are not talking about a room. We are talking about two vast regions that are largely unexplored---the universe itself and/or the human mind.Now I grant that your arguments make logical sense, by and large. All I am saying is that the issue is far from evident. There are too many loose ends.

Granted many believers have empty opinions, but some of their opinions are backed by real world experience.. such as living through a hurricane or being persecuted for the faith in another country. I would argue that people who stand for the faith rather than waffle on it like an armchair quarterback are themselves evidence of perseverance at least.

Have you not said that Christianity is about what you do? Thus...ones behavior is evidence of internal and intestinal fortitude at least. Tangle seems to think that God is absent. I would argue that strong positive behavior and character are evidence that God exists through some people. There are many recent examples in stories from the virgin islands and other devastated places...where individual actions of altruism and comfort beyond the norm were observed. These people have God in them whether they are aware of it or not.

Only because the hypothetical god does not behave as you determine He should behave. So at best the evidence is subjective. I maintain that God allows the hurricane simply because micromanaging everything begets a race of couch potato people with no character development.

Assuming that we could agree that every God is Theistic, by definition.

You are also an example of perseverance, come to think of it. If I found that you had also lived through persecution and perhaps a hurricane or two, I would weigh your beliefs more respectfully.As it is now, I only see you attempting to muck up the water so that it becomes harder to see the fish in the pond.You seem to have a good heart, though.The goal of EvC has been defined as Understanding Through Discussion.I would argue that understanding by definition is always evolving.

Seems to me its closest to pantheism. This whole idea of an impersonal "force" governing everything irritates me because I cannot conceive of a natural order with no personal authority behind it.

If your analogy holds...and God is defined as a cosmic Parent...consider that He allows His children to run around in an awfully big yard...one full of danger. My point is this:How would you hypothetically imagine God removing all of the dangers in the yard and envisioning the world that would then exist?

My point is this: How would God remove every possibility of death or dismemberment out of the way of his children? I mean seriously stop and attempt to imagine the world with no danger. No crack in any sidewalk to trip over. No weather abnormalities. And consider how removing hurricanes would affect the global weather pattern in general. Perhaps removing the bad things would also remove the good things..(like rain)My point (I think.. ) is that demanding that God allow nobody to die or get hurt would change the world we live into something else entirely.You claim that God is evil for allowing hurt and pain.I claim that the world as e know it would be impossible if God intervened more.