Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 63 (9161 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,584 Year: 2,841/9,624 Month: 686/1,588 Week: 92/229 Day: 3/61 Hour: 3/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Evidence of the flood
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 706 of 899 (820066)
09-16-2017 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 705 by herebedragons
09-16-2017 9:04 AM


Re: the usual miserable finale
The Muav channels were clearly formed after the strata were all in place by liquefied limestone running between the layers.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 705 by herebedragons, posted 09-16-2017 9:04 AM herebedragons has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 707 by PaulK, posted 09-16-2017 10:49 AM Faith has replied
 Message 709 by herebedragons, posted 09-16-2017 10:55 AM Faith has replied
 Message 715 by jar, posted 09-16-2017 11:21 AM Faith has replied
 Message 717 by JonF, posted 09-16-2017 11:25 AM Faith has replied
 Message 726 by Percy, posted 09-16-2017 11:45 AM Faith has replied
 Message 835 by RAZD, posted 09-18-2017 2:49 PM Faith has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17815
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 707 of 899 (820067)
09-16-2017 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 706 by Faith
09-16-2017 10:39 AM


Re: the usual miserable finale
quote:
The Muav channels were clearly formed after the strata were all in place by liquefied limestone running between the layers
What makes it "obvious"? Explain.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 706 by Faith, posted 09-16-2017 10:39 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 713 by Faith, posted 09-16-2017 11:10 AM PaulK has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 708 of 899 (820068)
09-16-2017 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 704 by herebedragons
09-16-2017 8:47 AM


monadnocks and other post-Flood disturbances
I think the monadnocks were pushed up into the still-wet layers after they were all laid down, as part of the tectonic upheaval that occurred at that point, that tilted the blocks we see as the Great Unconformity and pushed them up against the Tapeats, raising it along with the whole stack. The evidence is the curve in the Tapeats over those blocks of the GU, and in fact the curve of the entire stack, into which the canyon itself was cut at the Permian/Kaibab level. (This whole upheaval also put strain on the uppermost strata a mile or more above the Kaibab, which is what began the formation of the canyon by creating cracks in them. That uppermost strata broke up, the Flood waters were receding at this point, in fact probably began to receded as part of this upheaval, poured into the cracks, widening and deepening them, taking chunks of strata with it, and so the canyon was formed. Also the Grand Staircase was formed at the saqme time.)
Yes of course I'm repeating myself, it's what I think happened.
And the reason the faults in the GU stop at the Tapeats is because they were forming at the same time the whole block was being pushed up and sliding under the Tapeats. There was no continuous contact for them to continue upward due to the slippage between the layers. And all this also occurred in conjunction with the volcanism which became the Cardenas layer as well as the flow in the canyon itself, which formed both the granite and the schist beneath the Tapeats. All in one gigantic post-Flood upheaval. (In fact I've come to think of this as a worldwide event, accounting for all the angular unconformities, all the tectonic stress in all the strata everywhere, all the twisting and upending of the rocks etc., as the continents split apart. All happening as the Flood began to recede, all connected with this tectonic movement of the continents. So the Siccar Point angular unconformity would have occurred at this time too).
Further evidence for the timing is that the granite and schist are confined beneath the Tapeats just as the Great Unconformity faults are. The monadnocks are made of that very hard rock I can't at the moment remember the name of {abe: ah, quartzite! /abe} and they were hard enough due to the pressure of all the sub-Tapeats goings-on to be pushed up into the still-damp sediments above, which then settled around them.
It all works. You won't accept it but it does all work.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 704 by herebedragons, posted 09-16-2017 8:47 AM herebedragons has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 751 by Percy, posted 09-16-2017 1:11 PM Faith has not replied

  
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 848 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


(2)
Message 709 of 899 (820069)
09-16-2017 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 706 by Faith
09-16-2017 10:39 AM


Re: the usual miserable finale
The Muav channels were clearly formed after the strata were all in place by liquefied limestone running between the layers.
How can you possibly say that is "clear"? It is far from being clear that "liquefied limestone" even exists and that the channels in the Muav were cut by this fictitious material.
You could possibly say that "maybe liquefied limestone ran between the layers and carved the channels." But to say it is "clearly" the case and that we must all be blind to not see it is beyond ridiculous.
HBD

Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca
"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.
Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 706 by Faith, posted 09-16-2017 10:39 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 710 by Faith, posted 09-16-2017 11:00 AM herebedragons has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 710 of 899 (820070)
09-16-2017 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 709 by herebedragons
09-16-2017 10:55 AM


Re: the usual miserable finale
It doesn't look like a surface river bed, it has no features of a riverbed whatever, it's smooth and bald, it looks like a channel cut between the layers, and since it's filled with limestone which often dissolves, forming karsts and so on, which are also in evidence in the GC, it is the best explanation.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 709 by herebedragons, posted 09-16-2017 10:55 AM herebedragons has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 711 by herebedragons, posted 09-16-2017 11:03 AM Faith has replied

  
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 848 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


Message 711 of 899 (820071)
09-16-2017 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 710 by Faith
09-16-2017 11:00 AM


Re: the usual miserable finale
It doesn't look like a surface river bed, it has no features of a riverbed whatever, it's smooth and bald, it looks like a channel cut between the layers, and since it's filled with limestone which often dissolves, forming karsts and so on, which are also in evidence in the GC, it is the best explanation.
ABE: They sure don't look like karsts.
But Yea, sure, whatever ....
What about the paleosols? What cockamamie idea do have about how paleosols with intact termite nests and roots are preserved?
HBD
Edited by herebedragons, : No reason given.

Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca
"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.
Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 710 by Faith, posted 09-16-2017 11:00 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 712 by Faith, posted 09-16-2017 11:07 AM herebedragons has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 712 of 899 (820072)
09-16-2017 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 711 by herebedragons
09-16-2017 11:03 AM


Re: the usual miserable finale
Of course they don't look like karsts, the liquid was running and formed a channel. Karsts form more chaotically.
As for paleosols and termite nests you'd have to show me a picture.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 711 by herebedragons, posted 09-16-2017 11:03 AM herebedragons has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 714 by herebedragons, posted 09-16-2017 11:16 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 713 of 899 (820073)
09-16-2017 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 707 by PaulK
09-16-2017 10:49 AM


Re: the usual miserable finale
The smooth half-moon shape of the channel.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 707 by PaulK, posted 09-16-2017 10:49 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 718 by PaulK, posted 09-16-2017 11:26 AM Faith has replied
 Message 725 by herebedragons, posted 09-16-2017 11:44 AM Faith has replied

  
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 848 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


Message 714 of 899 (820074)
09-16-2017 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 712 by Faith
09-16-2017 11:07 AM


Re: the usual miserable finale
As for paleosols and termite nests you'd have to show me a picture.
Uhmm... Message 704

Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca
"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.
Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 712 by Faith, posted 09-16-2017 11:07 AM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 715 of 899 (820075)
09-16-2017 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 706 by Faith
09-16-2017 10:39 AM


Re: the usual miserable finale
Faith writes:
The Muav channels were clearly formed after the strata were all in place by liquefied limestone running between the layers.
And what is the process, procedure, model, method or mechanism that will liquefy limestone?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 706 by Faith, posted 09-16-2017 10:39 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 716 by Faith, posted 09-16-2017 11:24 AM jar has not replied
 Message 719 by Faith, posted 09-16-2017 11:28 AM jar has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 716 of 899 (820076)
09-16-2017 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 715 by jar
09-16-2017 11:21 AM


Re: the usual miserable finale
Those pictures don't help I'm afraid. I can't picture how the items were found in situ from such displays. I don't get what the problem is anyway.
Paleosols were probably just organically rich soils that were compressed in the laying down of the strata. Don't have any idea where the supposed termite nests fit into the scenario. Perhaps they too were sandwiched between layers?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 715 by jar, posted 09-16-2017 11:21 AM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 728 by herebedragons, posted 09-16-2017 11:53 AM Faith has replied
 Message 869 by Aussie, posted 09-20-2017 4:45 PM Faith has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 158 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(2)
Message 717 of 899 (820077)
09-16-2017 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 706 by Faith
09-16-2017 10:39 AM


Re: the usual miserable finale
Limestone isn't liquid. It's stone.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 706 by Faith, posted 09-16-2017 10:39 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 721 by Faith, posted 09-16-2017 11:36 AM JonF has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17815
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 718 of 899 (820078)
09-16-2017 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 713 by Faith
09-16-2017 11:10 AM


Re: the usual miserable finale
quote:
The smooth half-moon shape of the channel.
That's not an explanation, isn't true and doesn't give any reason to think your "liquid limestone" is needed at all. How about including the reasoning?
For reference, here is Percy's image of the channel again - you will note that the yellow line indicating the channel is nowhere near a "smooth half-moon shape"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 713 by Faith, posted 09-16-2017 11:10 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 720 by Faith, posted 09-16-2017 11:31 AM PaulK has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 719 of 899 (820079)
09-16-2017 11:28 AM
Reply to: Message 715 by jar
09-16-2017 11:21 AM


Re: the usual miserable finale
See Wikipedia article on "Karst"
Karst topography is a landscape formed from the dissolution of soluble rocks such as limestone, dolomite, and gypsum. It is characterized by underground drainage systems with sinkholes and caves.[1] It has also been documented for more weathering-resistant rocks, such as quartzite, given the right conditions.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 715 by jar, posted 09-16-2017 11:21 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 722 by jar, posted 09-16-2017 11:37 AM Faith has replied
 Message 752 by Percy, posted 09-16-2017 1:17 PM Faith has replied
 Message 836 by RAZD, posted 09-18-2017 3:02 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 720 of 899 (820080)
09-16-2017 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 718 by PaulK
09-16-2017 11:26 AM


Re: the usual miserable finale
I'm remembering a different picture. But this one tpo just looks like a smooth-cut channel filled with limestone. A riverbed would have a thick bed of pebbles and stones at the bottom, this is just a smooth surface.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 718 by PaulK, posted 09-16-2017 11:26 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 724 by PaulK, posted 09-16-2017 11:43 AM Faith has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024