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Author | Topic: Evidence of the flood | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
That looks like the Temple Butte limestone was originally laid down as a layer between the Redwall and the Muav when all of them were wet. Then of course there was a big vertical shift. Earthquake?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Paradigm influence is not about motives, it's about conditioned seeing.
I'm not ignoring anything you've said. I don't know what you think you've proved.
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herebedragons Member (Idle past 884 days) Posts: 1517 From: Michigan Joined: |
What's with this "raging" bit? The only raging part would have been at the very beginning and then it most likely quieted down as the water rose over the land. Oh that's right. I meant the "gentle" flood. That quietly carried huge chunks of sediment and paleosol blocks around and gently deposited them where it willed and covered them carefully with gently deposited sediments. Wouldn't it have taken a tremendous amount of energy to strip all the land away and suspend all those sediments so as to have enough material to deposit the layers of the GC miles think? How could large sections of paleosols survive that? Which way do you want it raging or gentle? HBDWhoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca "Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem. Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.
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herebedragons Member (Idle past 884 days) Posts: 1517 From: Michigan Joined: |
That looks like the Temple Butte limestone was originally laid down as a layer between the Redwall and the Muav when all of them were wet. No... the temple Butte flowed between the Redwall and the Muav and formed channels, remember? We were just discussing that not even 10 minutes ago. HBDWhoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca "Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem. Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.
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herebedragons Member (Idle past 884 days) Posts: 1517 From: Michigan Joined: |
Paradigm influence is not about motives, it's about conditioned seeing. Well, I called you on your "conditional seeing" and you accused me of attacking your motives, so... what is it? HBDWhoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca "Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem. Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
that's what happened at the location where there is the channel. Why should it have happened anywhere else? The Temple Butte is not overflowing the channel, it is confined to the channel. Something cut the channel after the Muav and Redwall were already there, evidenced by the relatively straight contact between the Redwall and the Temple Butte. Then it was filled by the Temple Butte. That's how it looks to me.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You said I was "making stuff up." That's not just seeing things differently.
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Percy,to Faith writes: No one misrepresents what you say, particularly Percy. We compose detailed rebuttals of your ideas which you then ignore. You just responded to a 300 word message of rebuttal with a one liner. How do you expect to overcome any rebuttals with rubbish like that? You're in essence just letting the rebuttals stand, and then you have the chutzpah to complain about how no one gives your ideas any credence. You have to defend your ideas, not repeat them from scratch over and over again like a parrot. Percy does have a point. The effort by many members to get you to discus your evidence with them is a lot of work on their part. Your explanations differ from their explanations, but unlike traditional scientists, you dont provide the same type of evidence that they do. Many laymen would be impressed with your ability to provide explanations that are not simply copy pasted from a book, but then again most laymen are in no need of evidence but only of persuasion from a person whom they can trust. To its credit, EvC has stated why it is that they dont trust you. I am not at the point that I dont trust you but I am again going to ask how you arrive at the conclusions that you do. Is it because you believe that a global flood must have happened and are attempting to provide an explanation why it must have happened? Does it frustrate you that nobody considers the premise as a valid approach to science?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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herebedragons Member (Idle past 884 days) Posts: 1517 From: Michigan Joined: |
Then of course there was a big vertical shift. Earthquake? I noted that the section on the left appears to be closer to the viewer, so a vertical shift is not necessarily evident in this image. What IS relevant is the thickness of the Temple Butte in this image compared to the previous image where it was only in the channel. BTW, do you know what the Temple Butte formation is composed of? Limestone? Here is a description from
quote: And you conclude that the Temple Butte limestone liquefied and flowed between the Redwall and the Muav and formed channels? I guess maybe you can see why that might not be so obvious to the rest of us. HBDWhoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca "Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem. Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.
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JonF Member (Idle past 194 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
doesn't mention liquid limestone.
There is such a thing as lime dissolved in water. It's not limestone, And it takes a long long time to precipitate limestone out of water containing lime.
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herebedragons Member (Idle past 884 days) Posts: 1517 From: Michigan Joined:
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Faith, there is no way you can see those pictures clear enough to tell if there is stream bed debris at the bottom of those channels. And yet you feel as though you can draw that conclusion anyway. That IS making stuff up.
Accusing others (who have actually examined the structures close up and in detail) of observing debris at the bottom of those formations and describing them as stream channels simply because they are motivated to do so by their personal paradigm is also making stuff up. HBDWhoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca "Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem. Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.
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JonF Member (Idle past 194 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
Your personal experience is inadequate. some have pebbles and rocks, some don't (such as a muddy slow flowing river like the Mississippi).
Here are some dried riverbeds (the cracks formed in the drying):
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined:
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This argument is very old at EvC. All of it has been rehashed many times. All of it. There is nothing new in any of it that I've seen. Yes I get very impatient and the more this same argument comes up the more impatient I get. I always have multiple people against me refusing to acknowledge anything reasonable I say and in fact denying that I ever say anything reasonable, which is, excuse me, stupid because I know it's reasonable and it doesn't exactly inspire me to treat anything they say with any respect. I'm sure my personality is a problem since I do have a temper and I do get impatient and I don't always remember to pray for patience. I did not want to get into this discussion on this thread at all, but read the sequence of posts and you'll see how I got dragged into it, and I'm still not completely in it. the Flood is the only reasonable explanation for the phenomena I'm talking about, I'm not "attempting to provide an explanation" because I am totally convinced it is the explanation and don't have to "attempt" anything about it. I believe the Grand Staircase/Grand Canyon cross section PROVES the Flood and I've pointed to all the features that do that. When I keep getting back supposed "rebuttals" that just restate the conventional interpretation and never ever ever acknowledge the points I've made, even though I understand why that is so in this Old Earth/Evolutionist stronghold I have less and less patience with it. Yes I am totally absolutely convinced of my own argument, yes I think the conventional position is totally untenable. Yes I don't take time to read through some posts because nobody ever acknowledges the points I've been making. I need another occupation.
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herebedragons Member (Idle past 884 days) Posts: 1517 From: Michigan Joined: |
that's what happened at the location where there is the channel. Why should it have happened anywhere else? There are also channels cut into the Muav and filled with Temple Butte limestone in the western section. To be clear: This image is from the eastern part of the canyon where there is almost no Temple Butte formation above the Muav
and this image is from the western part of the canyon where there is almost 300 feet of Temple Butte formation above the Muav.
If it flowed between the two layers at the eastern end, it would have had to flow between the two layers in the western end as well. How could it be otherwise? HBDWhoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca "Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem. Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Is a dry riverbed the sort of riverbed that is imputed to the Temple Butte channel or are you just reaching for any old anything to get rid of the pebbles argument?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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