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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The Tension of Faith | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
He'll be happy until Allah slaps the burka on him. He told me, If I get to heaven, and find out I’m wrong, and see all my Jewish and atheist friends there I will cry tears of joy. I will shout, ‘Thank you God!’ I will be so happy. It's funny how he says, "Even if I've been wrong about Hell all this time, I'm still right about God."
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3
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quote: The Old Testament has an awful lot of killing in it - that's even part of the essay. If Judaism isn't dangerous it is because most Jews ignore those parts. And Christian history features a whole lot of killing, too.
quote: In other words you ought to go further than accepting the evil and become propagandists for the evil. You say that there is nothing dangerous in Christianity but you accept genocide as good and necessary. Given your views about Islam - and your view that the State is empowered to act in ways unacceptable in individuals I don't think that genocide against Muslims is very far from your thinking - and your 'Christianity" encourages it.
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Percy Member Posts: 22502 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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Realizing you don't need religion to be moral is like the little kid on his bike who one day realizes he doesn't need the training wheels.
--Percy
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
As the author says, there is no violence in today's Judaism, it's all part of the ancient historical context. Fake Christianity has done a lot of killing, not true Christianity.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined:
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Nobody has said that to be moral requires religion. The Bible tells us that we were all made in the image of God and that means we were all born with a moral sense. Nevertheless we don't get it right a lot of the time and that's why the Bible gives us the written Moral Law.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: You could say much the same from Islam. The fact remains that the Bible glorifies genocide, and you seek to praise that rather than reject it. That attitude tended to encourage future acts. But it is interesting that you would think of Luther and those puritans who hunted witches as "Fake Christians"
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Tangle Member Posts: 9512 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
You didn't answer my question, do you believe that people that don't believe the same things as you are going to hell?
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You didn't answer my question, do you believe that people that don't believe the same things as you are going to hell? I believe you have to put all your trust in Jesus as the only salvation from Hell. No other religion offers a Savior or salvation from Hell. They believe in various versions of hell but they have no salvation from them. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
The fact remains that the Bible glorifies genocide, and you seek to praise that rather than reject it. That attitude tended to encourage future acts. The Bible teaches the severity of God's Justice. And if the Bible is the truth what good would it do anyone to refuse to believe it? That isn't going to stop God's justice from operating whether you like it or not. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9512 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Faith writes: I believe you have to put all your trust in Jesus as the only salvation from Hell. No other religion offers a Savior or salvation from Hell. They believe in various versions of hell but they have no salvation from them. That's a very evasive answer. I take it then that the minimum requirement is to be a baptised Christian? Catholics trust in Jesus yet you denounce them. Are they going to hell?Is GDR going to hell? Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Whoever trusts in Jesus as your salvation from Hell will be saved from Hell. That includes Catholics who trust in Jesus for salvation. Many of them trust in their membership in the Roman Church instead, but that won't save anybody, nor will being baptized. Jesus is the Savior, not the Church or the rituals.
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. " Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9512 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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Faith writes: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life". There's about 7.5bn people on the planet and about 2.2bn are Christians. Let's say that all of them pass your test - so that's a large overestimate. That means that 70% of the people alive today are going to hell simply because they were born in the wrong country or to the wrong parents. 5bn people tortured in hell for eternity. That's some git of a god you've got there, Faith. Something like 107bn people have ever lived. A big chunk of those will have been alive before Christianity was invented and it took a few thousand years to grow, so I'd say 85 billion people in hell to date as a very conservative guess, for no fault of their own. God 'so loved the world' that he comdemned almost all of his creation to everalsting torture? Does that actually make sense to you?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Jesus didn't come to send people to Hell but to save them from Hell. If He hadn't come people would have been going to Hell all over the world because there was no Savior. Now there is a Savior, and thanks to Christian missionaries and now worldwide communication methods people all over the world have heard the gospel, which Christ taught us to spread to everybody so they could be saved.
But people like you condemn us for telling people about Him so they can be saved. You know the gospel yet here you are complaining that there is a Savior from Hell though until He came there was no way to be saved from Hell. As I understand the character of God from the Bible those who know the most have the most responsibility, so that wherever people have truly not heard the gospel I expect a lot more mercy from God than toward those who have heard it and reject it. And the Bible also teaches that there are people everywhere who intuitively understand the Moral Law and obey it, so they will certainly receive mercy.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
John 3:17:
17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9512 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Faith writes: As I understand the character of God from the Bible those who know the most have the most responsibility, so that wherever people have truly not heard the gospel I expect a lot more mercy from God than toward those who have heard it and reject it. And the Bible also teaches that there are people everywhere who intuitively understand the Moral Law and obey it, so they will certainly receive mercy. Right so now there are grades of hell? Some of the eternal torture is less than for others? You wouldn't be making stuff up again would you?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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