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Author Topic:   "The Flood" deposits as a sea transgressive/regressive sequence ("Walther's Law")
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 115 of 224 (820849)
09-28-2017 7:34 AM
Reply to: Message 114 by PaulK
09-28-2017 6:44 AM


Re: The geologic "created kind"None
None of it was, it was all laid down in the Flood, one on top of another one after another. Look at them, they are all identical in form among all the other evidence I've given for the Flood and against the Geo Time Scale.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by PaulK, posted 09-28-2017 6:44 AM PaulK has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 122 of 224 (820866)
09-28-2017 9:36 AM
Reply to: Message 121 by edge
09-28-2017 9:27 AM


Re: the evidence against the Geo Time Scale and for the Flood is overwhelming
But that isn't what you've been telling us for the last year. You have said that rocks below an unconformity were deformed differently from the rocks above although at the same time.
I believe I said that angular unconformities are the only exception to the rule of deformation in blocks of strata, and I'm also talking about STRATA, not granite and schist.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by edge, posted 09-28-2017 9:27 AM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by edge, posted 09-28-2017 10:11 AM Faith has replied
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 130 of 224 (820885)
09-28-2017 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by edge
09-28-2017 10:11 AM


Re: the evidence against the Geo Time Scale and for the Flood is overwhelming
I believe I said that angular unconformities are the only exception to the rule of deformation in blocks of strata, and I'm also talking about STRATA, not granite and schist.
So, at what metamorphic grade do strata stop being strata?
Funny, I recall suggesting that the Schist was metamorphosed Supergroup and was told it's not by one of you geological experts. I still thought it was but oh well.
You can't bend strata that no longer have the form of strata. They stop being strata when they are no longer strata but changed into a shapeless mass of schist by heat and pressure.

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 Message 124 by edge, posted 09-28-2017 10:11 AM edge has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 132 of 224 (820887)
09-28-2017 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by Percy
09-28-2017 9:41 AM


Re: the Stratigraphic Column is NOT continuing
It's been explained to all here many many times that erosion between the layers would distort them in visible ways that that idiotic excuse of a rebuttal photo does not demonstrate. It's been explained to you all many many times that if the time scale were true there would not be a wall of strata at all, it would at least be riddled with deep cuts and visibly massively irregular contacts, not even the hint of a straight line, but really there shouldn't be even any strata at all. There shouldn't be discrete sediments at all. That's been explained over and over.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 135 of 224 (820893)
09-28-2017 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by RAZD
09-28-2017 3:44 PM


Re: the Stratigraphic Column is NOT continuing
Water
River water
Sea water
Deposits separated sediments
In layers
That's what the Flood did
That's how the Stratigraphic Column was formed
It did not make a jumble
It made a stack of sediments
The idea that there were describable periods of time (Cambrian, Devonian, Permian, Triassic etc) with definable identifiable living things in some stage or other of "evolution" between the former and the next, each marked by a slab of rock, a particular kind of sedimentary rock, some covering most of a continent, most at least thousands of square miles, is so nonsensical I don't know how you all keep yourselves convinced. It can only be by some kind of strange delusion.
You keep saying I haven't provided evidence but I've provided it so many times in the past I'm too tired to drum it all up again. If I could easily find all the relevant threads I'd do it but I'm not up to that either. And besides, the kinds of utterly ridiculous rebuttals I get to anything I say is not much of a motivator. I'm SOOOOOOOO tired of arguing these obvious things to the same old answers.
And again, I'm not reading some of these posts, particularly those by anyone who has attacked me personally and refuses to apologize. I'm sure I'm not missing much anyway, just the same old same old.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by RAZD, posted 09-28-2017 3:44 PM RAZD has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 155 of 224 (820921)
09-29-2017 1:34 AM
Reply to: Message 150 by edge
09-28-2017 11:45 PM


Re: the Stratigraphic Column is NOT continuing
Interestingly enough, the Nevada mountain ranges are mostly tilt blocks similar to the GC Supergroup strata of the Grand Canyon. The deformed rocks are preserved but are certainly planed off to some base level in most ancient mountain ranges.
This surface is still somewhat irregular in the GC since the harder quartzites have not been completely planed off and form the 'monadnocks' that we have been discussing.
In my scenario most of the mountain ranges were tectonically pushed up at the end of the Flood, just as in my scenario the Great Unconformity was also pushed up. And the fact that the strata above follow the contour of the pushed-up Supergroup keeps being ignored but it is the main evidence that the strata were already in place when the GU was formed. That means the monadnocks pushed up into the strata at the same time. And all of this of course proves that the Geo Time Scale is false. Then of course if you add the flat flat strata with their tight tight contacts you have evidence of rapid deposition. Flood, not vast ages of time.
One thing that I find curious in this discussion is the large number of flat landscapes such as the pediments and valley fill deposits in the Ruby Range image.
One thing *I* find curious is that the erosion of motley sediments from mountains onto a plain that isn't anywhere near flat like the strata is made to account for the strata. This idea makes me feel like Geology is a big joke you are all playing on us. It's really hard to believe that you believe such an idea. Being subjected to this kind of intellectual deceit doesn't inspire me to care a lot about the debate.
You even emphasize this big joke when you say:
If you look at the effects of seashore erosion you will see that the ultimate surface is pretty flat. Wave erosion is ferocious.
"Pretty flat" does not describe the strata except after they've been subjected to a few thousand years of settling. Here is a picture of one place where the original flatness of the strata is very apparent:
The vertical surface has been severely eroded leaving the original strata clearly visible in their pristine horizontality with their very tight contacts. This is a location where the tectonic upheaval didn't twist the strata for some reason, but something certainly knocked off a humongous amount of material to leave the mountain there.
Like waterfalls and volcanoes, mountain ranges are just temporary features on the surface of the earth. This will always be the case until plate tectonics stops and there is no more erosion. It will be a dead planet.
There simply is not enough time for this scenario to play out. The mountains can erode quite a bit but will never erode flat in the time allotted to this planet. Most of the mountains were pushed up by the great tectonic upheaval that separated the continents and played some big role in the receding of the Flood waters.
The amount of erosion that can be seen on some formations such as the hoodoos of the Southwest has to have occurred since their formation in the Flood, and what that amount of erosion shows is a few thousand years' worth. Some of the more delicate formations in that area have eroded to the point of breaking and falling apart, but that would happen in a few thousand years, not millions. And that would of course be the amount of erosion that's happened to the Ruby Mountains and all other formations since they all originated either in the Flood or by the tectonic activity afterward.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by edge, posted 09-28-2017 11:45 PM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by PaulK, posted 09-29-2017 2:31 AM Faith has replied
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 156 of 224 (820922)
09-29-2017 1:37 AM


suggestion
I wonder if it would be possible to present one argument at a time. I'll never get to the posts here, and it's still true that I don't feel like even acknowledging the existence of some of the posters, but if one argument out of all the different posts could be isolated I could deal with that a lot better than the pile-on here. Perhaps Moose could be assigned to choose the argument.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 158 of 224 (820926)
09-29-2017 2:56 AM
Reply to: Message 157 by PaulK
09-29-2017 2:31 AM


Re: the Stratigraphic Column is NOT continuing
The degree of flatness is clear to any sane person. The strata olf the Stratigraphic Column could not have been formed from motley sediments falling off a mountain onto a plain like the one in the picture, and to say it could just makes you one of the deceivers.
And the amount of erosion we see in the hoodoos and all the formations of the American Southwest counts back a few thousand years, not millions.
Deceivers galore on this subject.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by PaulK, posted 09-29-2017 2:31 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by PaulK, posted 09-29-2017 3:22 AM Faith has replied
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 160 of 224 (820930)
09-29-2017 6:43 AM
Reply to: Message 159 by PaulK
09-29-2017 3:22 AM


Re: the Stratigraphic Column is NOT continuing
You just proved the futility of this whole debate, not that it's anything new, it's par for the course and I'm an idiot for continuing in it.
The strata are NOT different in form, so the idea that I need to differentiate between particular ones claimed to be produced by sediments falling on the plain from some formed some other way is just more of the same kind of deceit. Edge did not identify any particular strata, he just implied that strata can be formed that way, or even on a sea shore, and there are NO strata that could POSSIBLY be formed that way, and yes it's OBVIOUS. If you can't see it you must be blinded by bias.
The rate of erosion of the hoodoos is known, you can go find it yourself though it's been posted somewhere here too, and the rate is consistent with a few thousand years, certainly not millions. Same with all the formations of the American Southwest, which can be judged by the erosion at their base. Since the original size of the hoodoos can also be easily calculated there is also that to confirm the time factor.
Substantiate it yourself. This debate is a sham.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 162 of 224 (820943)
09-29-2017 8:09 AM


Yes the Stratigraphic Column is OVER WITH
The Stratigraphic Column is a very particular stack of sedimentary rocks, it is not just any sedimentary layers. Those forming now are not connected to the Stratigraphic Column in any way and I do consider it some kind of deceit to try to claim they are when they do not occur in the right places, they are not large enough, they are nothing like those in the Stratigraphic Column. I'm sick of arguing this. Yes it IS obvious and I've utterly lost patience with the ridiculous tall tales being palmed off as evidence of the column's continuation.
For anyone to look at the picture of the stratified mountainside I posted and think those strata could possibly have been formed by slow sedimentation on a plain like the one in the picture of the Ruby Mountains, or on a sloping seashore either, is another case of deceit, perhaps self-deception but the idea is so OBVIOUSLY absurd there is no point in wasting my time producing some kind of proof. The debate is a sham. To be honestly convinced of such ideas would mean being so self-deceived there is no point in talking to such a person.
And now I'm being challenged on the time it took for the hoodoos to erode to their present condition. I did think the rate of erosion was pretty standard knowledge but now I have to substantiate it. Sorry, I can't do it, I'm not up to it, and again it's OBVIOUS that that degree of erosion did not take millions of years, or even a hundred thousand. The expansion and contraction of the rock with seasonal temperature changes causes grains to fall off, forming the hoodoo shape. The same occurs with all the formations of the American Southwest. That rate of erosion alone shows that the strata of which they are composed was laid down just a few thousand years ago, supporting the Flood, not the Geological Time Scale.
The actual appearance of the strate of the Stratigraphic Column proves the Flood. And I'm sick to death of having to argue with idiotic objections to obvious points. So suspend me already, it would be a blessing.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 172 of 224 (820982)
09-29-2017 5:52 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by Percy
09-29-2017 4:33 PM


Re: suggestion
Your personal comments in this post just guarantee I'm not dealing with your arguments at all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by Percy, posted 09-29-2017 4:33 PM Percy has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 173 of 224 (820986)
09-29-2017 6:10 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by edge
09-29-2017 9:29 AM


Re: Yes the Stratigraphic Column is OVER WITH
There are different portions or versions of the Stratigraphic Column in different locations, but there is still only one Stratigraphic Column, to which is attached the Geological Time Scale, illustrated thusly:
And by the way it goes up to the present time and it stops there with every indication that it is completed.
There are no other layers being added to this stack. Wherever they are being laid down it is not as a continuation of this stack.
You will deny this because you must, because if it isn't continuing it proves that it was the result of the Flood. So the debate is over isn't it?
And yes the claim that a stretch of desert could become strata is so ludicrous you should give it up immediately. Strata are FLAT, ALL of them are originally laid down FLAT and the picture I posted is a nice illustration of that. It also suggests the absurdity of assigning a time period to such a formation but that also won't be obvious to you because at all costs you must not think such a thing. I have to argue this stuff because Geology HAS to believe it can cobble strata together out of a desert plain which is impossible. You CAN'T entertain anything else. The debate is over.
And yes the time it has taken to carve the hoodoos by erosion is the time since the Flood. That you have to deny as well. The debate is over.
But all three of those observations support the Flood and kill the Geological Time Scale. Along with all the others I've made over the last ten or so years. But it's all denied and explained away in the most ludicrous fashion.
The debate is over.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 180 of 224 (820995)
09-30-2017 2:53 AM
Reply to: Message 178 by Minnemooseus
09-29-2017 9:36 PM


Re: Yes the Stratigraphic Column is OVER WITH
All that interests me is the stack of sediments, wherever they are found, however many of them are found in a given location, that either actually climb from the Cambrian to the Holocene or fit into that sequence, the stack of strata on which the Geological Time Scale is built.
THAT stack of sediments is over and done with, there is nothing building on it since the so-called "Holocene."
The hoodoos were formed in the very uppermost layer of the Grand Staircase. The Holocene perhaps? It's the last one, the uppermost one, and nothing could possibly build upon it. The entire area was subjected to extreme erosion obviously at the end of the building of the strata, or in other words the end of the Flood, brought about by the receding water of the Flood, which carved the staircase and Zion canyon and the Grand Canyon too.
Should we wonder why there isn't a hint of any hoodoos forming in any lower layers of the strata in that area? There was plenty of time of course, millions of years so y'all say. But no hoodoos. No canyons, no staircases, no erosion at all to speak of. Of course in a million years any hoodoos that did form would have eroded down to nothing. Yeah, I guess that's the explanation. Sure.
I guess you guys really do believe all this utter nonsense. The obvious falseness of it and the obvious evidence for the Flood are not going to be heard then. Oh well the evidence is all here at EvC scattered all over the place but it's here if anybody cares to track it down. If they don't, I don't care either. This whole debate is a miserable sham. Old Earth Geology is a delusion, and so is the ToE but I guess nobody is going to figure that out until the Very End.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by Minnemooseus, posted 09-29-2017 9:36 PM Minnemooseus has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 183 of 224 (821000)
09-30-2017 6:25 AM
Reply to: Message 182 by Minnemooseus
09-30-2017 4:01 AM


Re: Yes the Stratigraphic Column is OVER WITH
Yes I get it already about the Holocene, I got it long ago already. I just need a way to describe the FINISHED stack that DOES have a Holocene at the very top although it is finished. It is clearly finished and I've shown why many times.
I don't care whether Walther's Law can account for all the strata seen in the Grand Canyon and Grand Staircase, but I know the Flood accounts for all of it.
I've argued this a lot better in the past and no longer have the energy to keep arguing it, so I'm stopping.

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