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Author Topic:   Finally, some real news about the Mueller indictments
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 16 of 122 (822692)
10-31-2017 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by jar
10-31-2017 6:10 AM


Re: Fake Or Real? How To Tell
Just read this at NPR: 'None Of This Is Real': Conservative Media Reacts To Mueller Indictments The article states:
quote:
The right-wing website Breitbart, run by former White House strategist Steve Bannon, acknowledged to readers that former Trump campaign adviser Papadopoulos pleaded guilty after lying to the FBI about his contacts with Russians and trying to purge his Facebook account. His guilty plea directly contradicts a claim made by conservative media for months that Mueller's entire probe is fake news.
This whole paradigm of two different news sources has me confused. Perhaps I should remember the whole idea of source vs content and re-evaluate what it is that I read.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by jar, posted 10-31-2017 6:10 AM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by ringo, posted 10-31-2017 1:11 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 18 by Diomedes, posted 10-31-2017 2:30 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 17 of 122 (822694)
10-31-2017 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Phat
10-31-2017 1:06 PM


Re: Fake Or Real? How To Tell
Phat writes:
This whole paradigm of two different news sources has me confused.
Does any news source doubt that the indictments are real? Does any news source doubt that guilty pleas are real or that prosecutions are real? There comes a point when opinions from different sources don't matter and reality sets in.

This message is a reply to:
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Diomedes
Member
Posts: 995
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


(3)
Message 18 of 122 (822696)
10-31-2017 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Phat
10-31-2017 1:06 PM


Re: Fake Or Real? How To Tell
This whole paradigm of two different news sources has me confused. Perhaps I should remember the whole idea of source vs content and re-evaluate what it is that I read.
The main distinction to make when reading or watching various news sources is to understand the notion of bias versus outright fabrications. The whole 'fake news' mantra is simply a tactic to divert attention away from the Trump administration by attempting to delegitimize news agencies.
Bias exists in daily life and the news networks and publications are not immune from it. For example, there is no argument that MSNBC leans heavily left. The views of the main presenters (Maddow, Hayes, Matthews) are all liberally leaning. Now that does not mean their information is 'fake'. It means they will generally gravitate towards news stories that fit a narrative more to their slant. Conversely, Fox News leans heavily right. The main presenters there (Hanity, Carlson, and O'Reilly when he was still around) are all conservatively leaning. Which means they will also gravitate towards stories that fit their narrative.
CNN is somewhat different in my mind. People think it leans left, but to be honest, CNN is more disaster porn. They love to overly sensationalize any news story and will run it for all its worth. Their 'breaking news' is almost comical at this stage since there is 'breaking news' every five minutes.
From my own perspective, my two favorite news sources are BBC World News and the PBS news hour. There is still bias in these agencies, but I appreciate the fact that they spend more time conveying information than they do opinions. Also, they showcase news topics from around the world, not just the USA. The Catalonian crisis in Spain for example. Brexit in the UK. These agencies covered these topics extensively while Fox, MSNBC and CNN hardly touched them.
In the end, one has to always do a little due diligence. The key is to be open minded when viewing the news. If you are coming in with preconceived notions and are just looking for affirmation of things you already believe, then you aren't really getting news at that stage. It's just confirmation bias at that point.

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 Message 20 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-31-2017 3:03 PM Diomedes has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 19 of 122 (822697)
10-31-2017 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Diomedes
10-31-2017 2:30 PM


Re: Fake Or Real? How To Tell
The whole 'fake news' mantra is simply a tactic to divert attention away from the Trump administration by attempting to delegitimize news agencies.
OR, maybe THAT's part of the fake news, the propaganda, the bias, attempting to delegitimize Trump and the so-called "alt-right" and divert attention away from the truth about the real villains, such as Mueller himself.

This message is a reply to:
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 122 (822698)
10-31-2017 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Diomedes
10-31-2017 2:30 PM


Re: Fake Or Real? How To Tell
attempting to delegitimize news agencies
Pssh, these agencies delegitimized themselves when they stopped doing actual journalism. It's not even news, it's just bullshit piled onto bullshit.

This message is a reply to:
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Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 21 of 122 (822699)
10-31-2017 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Faith
10-31-2017 9:21 AM


My question is how did he get published by MSM, which wouldn't ordinarily float such a view as his.
The Daily Caller are a 'content partner' of MSN. This involves some kind of deal - the content partner may pay MSN a monthly or annual fee, and some kind of ad-revenue share deal is brokered. I don't know the details of The Daily Caller's agreement. I would imagine there are a variety of rules regarding the nature of the content that is permitted - political agreement of MSN is unlikely to be amongst them. Money, after all, talks.
As long as it doesn't bring MSN into disrepute, and ultimately makes them money - it's probably fine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Faith, posted 10-31-2017 9:21 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Faith, posted 10-31-2017 3:25 PM Modulous has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 22 of 122 (822700)
10-31-2017 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by ringo
10-31-2017 12:05 PM


Re: One reasonable leftist voice
The point of bringing down a bad President is to prevent him from doing greater damage.
Right. Such as by fulfilling the promises he made to those who voted him into office so that the views of his defeated opponents can prevail although they were voted out. Yup. That's the idea exactly.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Taq, posted 10-31-2017 3:17 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 40 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-31-2017 7:05 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 79 by ringo, posted 11-01-2017 3:13 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 23 of 122 (822701)
10-31-2017 3:16 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Taq
10-31-2017 11:53 AM


Reporting the truth is not a conspiracy.
True, but fake news may well be a conspiracy. And that's the question here isn't it?
Has it ever crossed your mind that bad presidents get criticized by people in the press
But never before has the media nonstop attacked, vilified, and twisted facts about a President before this. The degree of negative "reporting" about Trump has far exceeded anything ever done by the media to any President before, and there was a big study done that proved this a while back. Harvard? Something like Harvard anyway. It showed some huge percentage of Trump reports to be negative.. I didn't need that study to know that, but perhaps some here could make use of the information. Naa, it would just reflect the fact that Trump is the worst President ever and the media are just being fair, right?

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 Message 14 by Taq, posted 10-31-2017 11:53 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Taq, posted 10-31-2017 3:19 PM Faith has replied
 Message 41 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-31-2017 7:09 PM Faith has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9970
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(4)
Message 24 of 122 (822702)
10-31-2017 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Faith
10-31-2017 3:07 PM


Re: One reasonable leftist voice
Faith writes:
Right. Such as by fulfilling the promises he made to those who voted him into office so that the views of his defeated opponents can prevail although they were voted out. Yup. That's the idea exactly.
Trump promised that everyone would be covered under a Republican health care plan, deductibles would be lower, and the coverage would be better. The bill that Trump wanted passed kicked people off of coverage, raised deductibles, and decreased what the insurance would cover. How is that fulfilling a promise?

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Taq
Member
Posts: 9970
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(2)
Message 25 of 122 (822703)
10-31-2017 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Faith
10-31-2017 3:16 PM


Faith writes:
True, but fake news may well be a conspiracy. And that's the question here isn't it?
The problem is that you call it fake news for simply reporting on stuff that is shows Trump in a bad light, and that is what Trump does as well.
But never before has the media nonstop attacked, vilified, and twisted facts about a President before this.
Did you ever watch Fox News during the Obama years? Seriously?
It showed some huge percentage of Trump reports to be negative.. I didn't need that study to know that, but perhaps some here could make use of the information.
Just like most reports on Bill Cosby are negative as of recently. Has it ever occurred to you that reports are negative because Trump is a bad president?

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 Message 23 by Faith, posted 10-31-2017 3:16 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Faith, posted 10-31-2017 3:30 PM Taq has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 26 of 122 (822704)
10-31-2017 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Modulous
10-31-2017 3:06 PM


I noticed that "content partner" line but wow, what a strange result to get actual content from your partner that would never otherwise see the light of day under your label, laden with disclaimers of course, but out there where someone might actually think there could be something to it. Wow. To me it's sort of a miracle.

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 Message 21 by Modulous, posted 10-31-2017 3:06 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Modulous, posted 10-31-2017 3:43 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 27 of 122 (822705)
10-31-2017 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Taq
10-31-2017 3:19 PM


Fox News? ONE anti-President channel is NOTHING to the total anti-Trump blackout blitz of all the automatically public media. And now Fox is mostly one of the anti-Trump chorus anyway.
The question is why it hasn't occurred to YOU and many others here that you're actually getting fake news and not the truth. THAT is the real question.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Taq, posted 10-31-2017 3:19 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Taq, posted 10-31-2017 3:32 PM Faith has replied
 Message 30 by PaulK, posted 10-31-2017 3:39 PM Faith has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9970
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(2)
Message 28 of 122 (822706)
10-31-2017 3:32 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Faith
10-31-2017 3:30 PM


Faith writes:
Fox News? ONE anti-President channel is NOTHING to the total anti-Trump blackout blitz of all the automatically public media. And now Fox is mostly one of the anti-Trump chorus anyway.
The biggest cable news channel blasted Bill Clinton and Obama for their entire terms, and you pretend that criticisms of Trump are a new thing. Sorry, but not buying it.
Also, you are saying the press is wrong for simply criticizing the president. That shows a lot of bias.
The question is why it hasn't occurred to YOU and many others here that you're actually getting fake news and not the truth. THAT is the real question.
I can't take that question seriously because you claim anything critical of Trump is fake news simply for being critical.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Faith, posted 10-31-2017 3:30 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Faith, posted 10-31-2017 3:35 PM Taq has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 29 of 122 (822707)
10-31-2017 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Taq
10-31-2017 3:32 PM


They are NOT just "criticizing" the President. They are turning every little bit of factual trivia into an excuse to make him look bad, they are twisting the "news" for that purpose, they are inventing fake news, they are lying. Somebody in government or the public somewhere will give an extreme negative opinion of something Trump did and the media will pick it up and "report" it as if it's the truth. The CBS "news" I heard a few mornings ago was almost totally made up of such fake "news."
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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 Message 28 by Taq, posted 10-31-2017 3:32 PM Taq has replied

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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 30 of 122 (822708)
10-31-2017 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Faith
10-31-2017 3:30 PM


quote:
The question is why it hasn't occurred to YOU and many others here that you're actually getting fake news and not the truth. THAT is the real question.
Because it is obviously not the case.
For instance your real news is obviously ignoring the fact the Mueller was appointed to do this investigation and that rather obviously the dodgy campaign manager with Russian connections was always likely to be among the first to be indicted. The fact that Mueeler is doing his job as he would be expected to do it is hardly evidence against him!
So it is obviously dishonest propaganda aimed at delegitimising Mueller’s investigation. And thus we can hardly trust any other claims it makes either.

This message is a reply to:
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