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Author Topic:   Because The Bible Tells Me So
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 93 of 111 (824598)
12-01-2017 3:11 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by kbertsche
11-30-2017 5:36 PM


Re: The Chicago Statement Revisited
This part jumped out at me:
quote:
We affirm that canonical Scripture should always be interpreted on the basis that it is infallible and inerrant. However, in determining what the God-taught writer is asserting in each passage, we must pay the most careful attention to its claims and character as a human production. In inspiration, God utilized the culture and conventions of His penman's milieu, a milieu that God controls in His sovereign providence; it is a misinterpretation to imagine otherwise.
So history must be treated as history, poetry as poetry, hyperbole, and metaphor as hyperbole and metaphor, generalization and approximation as what they are, and so forth. Differences between literary conventions in Bible times and in ours must also be observed: since, for instance, nonchronological narration and imprecise citation were conventional and acceptable and violated no expectations in those days, we must not regard these things as faults when we find them in Bible writers. When total precision of a particular kind was not expected nor aimed at, it is no error not to have achieved it.
Scripture is inerrant, not in the sense of being absolutely precise by modern standards, but in the sense of making good its claims and achieving that measure of focused truth at which its authors aimed.
In a way, they have collectively pardoned scripture itself from criticism.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by kbertsche, posted 11-30-2017 5:36 PM kbertsche has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by PaulK, posted 12-01-2017 3:22 AM Phat has replied
 Message 95 by kbertsche, posted 12-01-2017 7:47 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 97 of 111 (824610)
12-01-2017 8:08 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by PaulK
12-01-2017 3:22 AM


Re: The Chicago Statement Revisited
delete broken link
Edited by Phat, : delete broken post

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by PaulK, posted 12-01-2017 3:22 AM PaulK has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 99 of 111 (824612)
12-01-2017 8:09 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by PaulK
12-01-2017 3:22 AM


Re: The Chicago Statement Revisited
PaulK writes:
They have declared that they have authority over and above scripture.
Really? Where does it say that?
Lets gather these links together for reference as we discuss this Inerrancy conference.
The Chicago Statement was signed by nearly 300 noted evangelical scholars, including James Boice, Norman L. Geisler, John Gerstner, Carl F. H. Henry, Kenneth Kantzer, Harold Lindsell, John Warwick Montgomery, Roger Nicole, J. I. Packer, Robert Preus, Earl Radmacher, Francis Schaeffer, R. C. Sproul, and John Wenham.
The ICBI disbanded in 1988 after producing three major statements: one on biblical inerrancy in 1978, one on biblical hermeneutics in 1982, and one on biblical application in 1986.
Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy with Exposition Or #1
Chicago Statement on Biblical Hermeneuticsor #2
Chicago Statement on Biblical Application or #3.
I'm reading this stuff right now as I gather material to present on this topic. And basically, the issue is whether humans have a right and/or responsibility to interpret scripture as it was written or whether the authority of the scriptures and Canons is untouchable. Mind you, I'm not in unanimous agreement with these Chicago Statements, but I wanted to bring the discussion of Chicago to this thread rather than getting distracted in my Sproul thread.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by PaulK, posted 12-01-2017 3:22 AM PaulK has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 100 of 111 (824613)
12-01-2017 8:13 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by PaulK
12-01-2017 8:08 AM


Re: The Chicago Statement Revisited
PaulK writes:
That is hardly fair. If there is a contradiction it is honest to the text to point out the contradiction - without any need to decide which is true.
And if scripture contradicts established fact - that isn’t something non-inerrantists just arbitrarily make up.
I see your point but do you see theirs? If there is no consensus on what is and is not authoritative, one may as well throw the book away and start from scratch...which is kinda what we do here.
Basically what they are doing is establishing scripture as the authority over themselves just as Rome established a Pope. Scripture is their Pope. Declaring this stuff gives them authority to thus extrapolate on what has been written.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by PaulK, posted 12-01-2017 8:08 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by PaulK, posted 12-01-2017 8:19 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 102 of 111 (824615)
12-01-2017 8:32 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by PaulK
12-01-2017 8:19 AM


The Impact Of The Chicago Statements
I can see that they are all selling something. I went to Geislers website and was solicited. Sproul sells a lot of stuff too, but he also has a lot of free stuff that is easily accessible.
One thing that has been revealed is that this group from Chicago that affirmed these positions is the heart and soul of Biblical Christianity.
Would you say that all of them are Calvinists or can be defined as such?
What are some scholarly groups who steer around Calvinism without digressing into Universalism or feel good positive affirmations, such as Joel Osteen teaches?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by PaulK, posted 12-01-2017 8:19 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by PaulK, posted 12-01-2017 9:38 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 104 by jar, posted 12-01-2017 9:44 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 109 of 111 (824760)
12-03-2017 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by New Cat's Eye
03-08-2007 4:39 PM


Re: Confused in California (and probably a little foolish).
NCE writes:
What if we set God's wisdom as omniscience? Then what do you think it means? What about for something very near but not quite omniscience (you know what I mean?)?
If the magnitude of the value of God's wisdom is infinite, then whatever value we are at is negligible (foolishness) compared to God's but that doesn't mean that we are wrong (false) in our wisdom.
Even if we don't set it at infinite, whatever value we assume god has, it is probably high enough to render ours as negligible. Which is what I think the point of the quote is. I don't think it means that our wisdom is false, do you? (realizing you think its meaningless).
This was in 2007. Has your perspective changed any on God and His wisdom since then?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-08-2007 4:39 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 110 of 111 (824967)
12-05-2017 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by jar
03-06-2007 10:51 AM


Re: You wicked, wicked monkey!
jar writes:
Paul is not speaking out against the wisdom of the world, rather he is pointing directly to that as all that is possible to know.
Paul is not addressing prophecy or scripture or revelation as the source of knowledge, but rather what we learn from the world around us, what has been made.
The only way to knowledge is through understanding of the world and universe we live in.
One thing I like about you...even though it frustrates me at times--is that you have a different view on Paul and on the Bible and on what it says than most of the classical apologists. I dont believe that they are all dishonest nor do I believe that you have a corner on the truth, but it is always good to look at a passage more than just one way.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by jar, posted 03-06-2007 10:51 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by jar, posted 12-05-2017 5:47 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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