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Author | Topic: Executive Pay - Good Capitalism Bad Capitalism? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
I wonder how much that satisfaction is due to knowing you get more wages than people working minimum wage. Not at all.
My pay wasn't derived from their profits. If I want a share in the profits then I can buy stock. You pay comes out of overhead, which is taken out of gross returns to result in net returns, eg - profit. The larger your share is, the higher the overhead is, and if gross returns is not increased to compensate (raising prices), then it reduces net returns and profit. So it does come out of profit. So, I bill clients for my time and they pay my employer at a bill rate and my pay is a portion of that payment. What's left goes towards overhead and profit. If I'm not billing then the company isn't making money off me - that's where my leverage comes from.
Only if (a) your pay is large enough to leave you with the discretionary money (wages above living costs) to afford the stock and (b) if there is stock available to buy (not all companies issue stock). Both of those are true.
Would I be right in assuming you have some investments (IRA, savings, mutual funds, etc)? That gives you future security (that people on minimum wage don't have) and a feeling (satisfaction) that you are getting somewhere in the economy. You just aren't tied to how well the company succeeds the way people that earn a share of the profit in a co-op do. Right. And I don't care. From Message 98:
I think another part of it is that it's harder to get a bunch of people to agree and take responsibility for everything than it is to just have one motherfucker in charge of the whole thing. So sayeth the willing subservient serf to the smiling king. I know you're full of shit when you have to resort to personal insults.
Guess you're not a big fan of democracy ... In business? Yeah, not so much. But it really depends.
Why couldn't the "motherfucker in charge" be democratically elected by the people in the company? Isn't that how representative democracies work? Sure, and they could be. I'm not saying they can't. Although, if one person starts the business by themself then you can't really have a democracy.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1
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I always wondered why you didnt like unions....now I'm starting to see your mindset... My Republican friend always tells me that its not his responsibility to fund my retirement. They just want us to die and get out of the way so that their kids have room to thrive.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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ringo writes: Since you're (now) saying the same thing I said, no. I said People will tell you all sorts of things about being prepared to spend a bit more for great service but the majority will then go out and buy the cheapest.I You said If that was true, there wouldn't be anybody providing better customer service. In some markets and for some customers it will make sense to offer great customer service because some people will pay the extra for it. But most of the time they won't. Your simple generalisation is factually and logically wrong. There's a classic case here in the UK where the cheap and horrible Ryan Air do disgraceful things to their customers which they bitterly complain about. But they just go back and buy another seat anyway because they're dirt cheap. Michael O'Leary has changed how all the other airlines work - for the worse - but it is at least cheap. A couple of his quotes on customer service: On apologies: Are we going to say sorry for our lack of customer service? Absolutely not. On Ryanair’s image: One of the weaknesses of the company now is it is a bit cheap and cheerful and overly nasty, and that reflects my personality. His massacre of customer service has made him very rich. RAZD will love this one On beginning a press conference to announce the annual results: I’m here with Howard Miller and Michael Cawley, our two deputy chief executives. But they’re presently making love in the gentleman’s toilets, such is their excitement at today’s results.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
And you agreed that there are businesses providing better customer service. That's all I'm saying.
You said If that was true, there wouldn't be anybody providing better customer service.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
ringo writes: And you agreed that there are businesses providing better customer service. That's all I'm saying. Sky is blue, water is wet.....Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
Indeed, so you can stop pretending that I'm wrong. Sky is blue, water is wet..... Edited by ringo, : Speling.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member
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I always wondered why you didnt like unions....now I'm starting to see your mindset... My Republican friend always tells me that its not his responsibility to fund my retirement. They just want us to die and get out of the way so that their kids have room to thrive. Well that's not why I don't like unions. I've just never had a need for one and my experience in dealing with them has been unpleasant. In another post you mentioned differences in mindsets on fairness. I believe in having fairness in opportunity but I don't expect fairness in outcome. And I'm against a state trying to force fairness in outcome by restricting opportunity.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
I believe in having fairness in opportunity but I don't expect fairness in outcome. And I'm against a state trying to force fairness in outcome by restricting opportunity. I think everybody is onboard with this, and that the difference in where people stand lies in what they define as opportunity vs outcome? Is getting a great education and opportunity or an outcome? Is not having lead in your water an opportunity or an outcome? Is not getting "shot while black" an opportunity or an outcome? I am not pegging you on either end of the spectrum. What I am challenging you on is the idea that people who come out differently than you are morally inferior or restrictors of opportunity. It is a matter of fact that opportunities are not infinite and that providing one person opportunities often deprives another of the same opportunity. Any leveling of the playing field, fair or not, will have that effect. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
ringo writes: Indeed, so you can stop pretending that I'm wrong. This..
quote: ...is wrong. But I'm done, the sky is now black.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Tangle writes:
And yet you agreed with it in Message 94: "But it doesn't mean that no-one would specialise in a niche where customer service matters."
This..
quote:...is wrong.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
I believe in having fairness in opportunity but I don't expect fairness in outcome. And I'm against a state trying to force fairness in outcome by restricting opportunity. I think everybody is onboard with this, and that the difference in where people stand lies in what they define as opportunity vs outcome? It seems to me that the leftists want to force equality of outcome.
Is getting a great education and opportunity or an outcome? Getting the education is an outcome. Having access to it is the opportunity. People should have fair access to education. It isn't unfair that some people don't end up getting it.
Is not having lead in your water an opportunity or an outcome? Is not getting "shot while black" an opportunity or an outcome? I dunno - neither? Doesn't feel apt.
I am not pegging you on either end of the spectrum. What I am challenging you on is the idea that people who come out differently than you are morally inferior or restrictors of opportunity. I don't think either of those things.
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Taq Member Posts: 9973 Joined: Member Rating: 5.7
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RAZD writes: So you agree that having a powerful voice in negotiating compensation with "the people holding the purse strings" is more likely to lead to a fair(er) share of the profits of the corporation (and sports are corporations), and that the players unions means that it is more equitably shared with all the players? But then we come to the star players. Are they exploiting the system to get more than other players? What's a fair share?
League minimum for a rookie player is almost 1 million a year. The top salary is 32 million a year. That seems pretty equitable to me. Even rookie players who barely make it into the league are making a really nice paycheck.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
NoNukes writes: What I am challenging you on is the idea that people who come out differently than you are morally inferior or restrictors of opportunity. NCI writes: I don't think either of those things. You are the one who brought the idea up. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
NoNukes writes: What I am challenging you on is the idea that people who come out differently than you are morally inferior or restrictors of opportunity. NCI writes: I don't think either of those things. You are the one who brought the idea up. You must've misread me.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
NCE writes: You must've misread me. That is certainly possible. You did say this.
NCE writes: And I'm against a state trying to force fairness in outcome by restricting opportunity. I'm going to assume that you don't believe anybody is for such a thing given your comments. So why'd you bring that up? Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
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