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Author Topic:   Net Neutrality --- For Once, Everyone Wins
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 73 (751114)
02-27-2015 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Jon
02-26-2015 7:08 PM


Re: Pay per Ad Internet
Maybe. But what about power companies? Water? These local monopolies have relatively stable prices.
Utility monopolies are subject to very restrictive government oversight. They have to ask permission to raise prices, and the granting of those increases is very political. The price increases must be justified as do capital expenditures.
Cable companies are not regulated to nearly that extent, and yet their semi-monopoly positions are protected by legislation every bit as protective as the utilities. In many locations it is impossible, for example, for a municipality to develop a internet coop that completes with ISPs. Some ISPs have notoriously bad services and high prices, yet their is little competition and no impetus to change.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Jon, posted 02-26-2015 7:08 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Jon, posted 02-27-2015 11:57 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 73 (751126)
02-27-2015 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Jon
02-27-2015 11:57 AM


Re: Pay per Ad Internet
All the more reason the Internet companies will start raping their customers and blaming the government.
Internet companies are already treating customers badly. What exactly is your point?

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Jon, posted 02-27-2015 11:57 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Jon, posted 02-27-2015 8:05 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 73 (751152)
02-28-2015 1:16 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Jon
02-27-2015 8:05 PM


Re: Pay per Ad Internet
My point is that they will now treat them even worse...
Explain your reasoning, please.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Jon, posted 02-27-2015 8:05 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Jon, posted 02-28-2015 9:53 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 73 (751165)
02-28-2015 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Jon
02-28-2015 9:53 AM


Re: Pay per Ad Internet
Just like employers used ACA to excuse cutting hours or hiring people only at part-time, the big, bad ISPs will start sending out letters with their bills explaining that 'due to the new Net Neutrality rules' they are going to have to start cutting some services or charging more.
For the most part, employers who cut hours and blamed it on ACA were full of crap. I don't blame ACA for those actions. Temps and part-time are nothing new, anyway.
You are not providing an argument or an explanation. You are just asserting stuff. If the ISPs are allowed to tier content, what is to stop them from charging customers more for accessing higher tier content? The service providers have already demonstrated that they do not require government excuses to pass on high costs and poor service to customers.
What I am asking is an explanation of why customers should expect worse from ISPs under net neutrality than without net neutrality. Why isn't the answer to bad service and high prices increasing competition rather than giving ISPs more leverage to over charge?

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Jon, posted 02-28-2015 9:53 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Jon, posted 02-28-2015 3:05 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 48 of 73 (825571)
12-16-2017 6:56 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by RAZD
12-15-2017 8:47 AM


Re: FCC Dissenters on Net Neutrality Repeal Post Letters
Public non-profit co-op utilities -- another socialist solution to capitalist greed.
If we want to call local public efforts to provide internet access socialist, a point that I don't concede, then what should we call state government laws that to prevent voters from providing public assess for their communities. Surely those kind of laws are something other than free market capitalism.
Who voted for this shite again?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by RAZD, posted 12-15-2017 8:47 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by RAZD, posted 12-16-2017 3:57 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 57 of 73 (825822)
12-18-2017 10:04 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by RAZD
12-16-2017 3:57 PM


Re: FCC Dissenters on Net Neutrality Repeal Post Letters
The corrupt politicians that are bought by the oligarchs?
I was thinking of those folks who voted in those politicians. Although democrats seem to be no less corruptible than republicans, we've always known how the republicans felt about net neutrality, and we've known for a long time that we were one vote away from the loss of net neutrality. The current outcome was entirely predictable, and folks should have taken it into account at the last election.
Even more serious is the silent overhaul of the justice system. In addition to not allowing Obama to pick a Supreme Court justice, the republicans held open countless federal judge openings for Trump that should have been filled by Obama. Those positions are being filled with ideologues who in at least a few cases are not even legally competent.
Damage is being to our country on a daily basis and the loss of net neutrality is just one example of that. We get another attempt to put brakes on this stuff in 2018. And there are plenty of new faces out there freshly energized by after this year's inauguration and subsequent protests.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by RAZD, posted 12-16-2017 3:57 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by RAZD, posted 12-18-2017 10:16 AM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 62 of 73 (825892)
12-19-2017 12:58 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by Percy
12-18-2017 3:36 PM


Comcast can't send Netflix a bill just because one of Comcast's Internet customers watched a movie.
When you say, "can't" do you mean that such things are technically difficult, or that they are impractical, or that they are illegal.
I don't believe there are any obstacles to Comcast doing exactly that. The packets running through a network contain information about both the source and the destination.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Percy, posted 12-18-2017 3:36 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Percy, posted 12-19-2017 10:25 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 66 of 73 (825957)
12-19-2017 8:37 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Percy
12-19-2017 10:25 AM


Netflix getting billed by Comcast would sort of be like someone walking through a mall and then getting billed by the mall for strolling through the space that they make publicly available so that they can make money by renting store space.
You are ignoring the incentives Netflix would have to make an arrangement with the Comcast due to Comcast having their hands on the throats of Netflix and any of Netflix competitors. I expect that Netflix will quickly come to an accommodation with Comcast or whoever is one of the 1-2 providers the average computer user has available.
Yes, of course, there are no technical restrictions to figuring out who exactly to send the bill to.
Exactly. There is no "can't" here. There are no real technical issues, and no significant relationship barriers either.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Percy, posted 12-19-2017 10:25 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by Percy, posted 12-19-2017 10:08 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 70 of 73 (825971)
12-20-2017 9:32 AM
Reply to: Message 67 by Percy
12-19-2017 10:08 PM


I think what I said earlier in Message 64 still stands. Nothing was mentioned or implied about technical issues, it’s just that no current business relationship exists between content providers and ISPs, at least not regarding bandwidth:
Again, that is simply not a significant obstacle. I expect that Netflix and Comcast will reach an accommodation quickly. Netflix has no other choice.
And you are right. You did not mention any technical issues. You did not give reasons, which is why I asked for your thoughts on the matter.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Percy, posted 12-19-2017 10:08 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by Percy, posted 12-20-2017 6:21 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 73 of 73 (826223)
12-26-2017 5:21 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by Percy
12-20-2017 6:21 PM


There are many content providers and many ISPs.
There is a short list of ISPs that really matter, and the content providers will be gotten to on a priority basis. I imagine that Netflix is way up there on the priority list.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Percy, posted 12-20-2017 6:21 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
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