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Author Topic:   Senator Al Franken?
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 246 of 300 (826020)
12-20-2017 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 244 by RAZD
12-18-2017 12:13 PM


Re: Why no ethics committee hearing for Franken
One is inappropriate behavior for an elected official, the other is a prosecutable offense.
Both are prosecutable offenses, although of different degrees. I have some (but not much) sympathy with folks who want to draw a line between them for the purpose of deciding whether Franken should wait of a hearing. But let's not minimize either behavior.
As much as it pains me to say so, Franken's behavior is an assault/battery at minimum. Not comparable with rape of course. Also, not comparable to a 30 year old man dragging the malls and high school corridors for chicks, but still unacceptable.
Neither is acceptable behavior for a human being, let alone an elected official.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by RAZD, posted 12-18-2017 12:13 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 249 by Rrhain, posted 12-21-2017 8:33 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 247 of 300 (826021)
12-20-2017 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 227 by Rrhain
12-16-2017 2:08 AM


Re: Lefties on the bullseye?
Just because she didn't mean to do it doesn't mean it didn't happen. As you just said, my impression is relevant as well as hers. So can't both be true?
Actually, no. Only you can grant permission with regards to your own body. If you say it was not an assault, as far as I am concerned, that ends the matter.
ABE:
Beyond the specific point I've commented on, there are plenty of differences between your scenario and the ones Al is involved in. There are no "stage kisses" between a celebrity and his fans. What there is instead is some kind of 'celebrity liberty' wherein celebrities get away with stuff that other folks know not to do, and wherein the victims are supposed to just laugh it off.
Well, guess what? That 'liberty' is assault. There is no obligation on the part of women to tolerate that shit.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : add a pronoun antecedent

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by Rrhain, posted 12-16-2017 2:08 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 251 by Rrhain, posted 12-21-2017 8:44 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 250 of 300 (826085)
12-21-2017 8:40 PM
Reply to: Message 249 by Rrhain
12-21-2017 8:33 PM


Re: Why no ethics committee hearing for Franken
What about me? Was I the victim of assault/battery? Did I commit assault/battery? The exact same things happened to me or were perpetrated by me.
I have answered this question to the best of my ability.
So if two people take a picture and one reaches around the other and accidentally puts a hand where it shouldn't be, that's sufficient?
If one person shoves his tongue down another person's throat, that is sufficient.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by Rrhain, posted 12-21-2017 8:33 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 252 by Rrhain, posted 12-21-2017 8:47 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 253 of 300 (826088)
12-21-2017 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 252 by Rrhain
12-21-2017 8:47 PM


Re: Why no ethics committee hearing for Franken
Really? Because I have yet to hear a "yes" or a "no."
Which means you haven't answered the question.
No, that's not what it means. I have told you why I have answered without a yes or no. I have indicated what information is lacking before I can answer your question. Instead of providing that information, you have simply repeated the question.
Beyond that, I find your behavior is dishonest. I have also explained to you several times why your situation does not mirror Franken's anyway, so your question is irrelevant.
At this point, if you don't have another line of argument, we probably don't have anything further to discuss. Why don't you summarize your conclusions and I will summarize mine?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by Rrhain, posted 12-21-2017 8:47 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 258 by Rrhain, posted 12-26-2017 5:38 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 254 of 300 (826124)
12-22-2017 4:36 PM
Reply to: Message 251 by Rrhain
12-21-2017 8:44 PM


Re: Lefties on the bullseye?
So there's no way for it to be an accident? If I feel that the other person "meant it," then that is sufficient to declare that the other person really did?
Do you have any facts to add? Do you believe it was an accident? After all, you were there.
If you aren't going to answer those questions, then we don't even have an accuser here. You are so far away from offering an explanation for Franken's situation, that your comments are not worth considering. My conclusion is that you are not on point. You are welcome to the last word on this subthread.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by Rrhain, posted 12-21-2017 8:44 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 259 by Rrhain, posted 12-26-2017 5:56 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 257 of 300 (826229)
12-26-2017 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 256 by Percy
12-24-2017 8:28 AM


HR is composed of people just like you and me, and they're as baffled and nervous and full of trepidation concerning how to deal with harassment situations as we would be, despite the training they receive. Women should be very wary of reporting sexual harassment to HR.
HR employees have no duty of confidentiality to a complaining employer that is stronger than their first duty to the company. Any woman or man would be well advised to talk to her attorney prior to any consultation with HR on a serious offense involving a senior employee. Of course, that kind of consultation adds an extra level of expense which may never be recouped; it is yet another barrier to even daring to report.
If you have a legal grievance against a senior person at a company, you can expect your reviews will start featuring negative observations. You can expect that a paper trail will be started and that behaviors that are routinely tolerated by the company will become issues for you. You won't be selected for special projects that will enhance the careers of the folks who succeed in those assignments.
In short, folks who report sexual harassment to HR should be prepared to leave their place of employment. It is small wonder that folks often file these things on the way out the door, or after they have left.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by Percy, posted 12-24-2017 8:28 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 265 of 300 (826825)
01-10-2018 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 263 by Percy
01-10-2018 6:45 PM


Re: Catherine Deneuve Speaks Out
She says some important things, like that women shouldn't be forced into the role of perpetual victim
Yeah, that is a truism, but is it important here? Are there a significant number of "metoo" voices that are doing this? If so are they getting airtime? In my opinion, this "important thing" is just more of the same misguided thought that underlies the rest of DeNeuve's statement.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by Percy, posted 01-10-2018 6:45 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 266 by xongsmith, posted 01-11-2018 10:38 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
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