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Author Topic:   Science proves that the tomb of Jesus (Christ ?)and James the Just have been found.
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1523
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 75 of 114 (824053)
11-21-2017 10:38 PM


The SCIENTIFIC soil composition issue again.
quote:

Israeli Geologist Reignites Debate on 'Burial Tomb' of Jesus

By Elliot Jager | Tuesday, 07 Apr 2015 07:56 AM

A retired Israeli geologist has reported a geochemical match between dirt in the Talpiot Tomb — where coffin-like boxes were found with Aramaic inscriptions understood to read "Jesus son of Joseph," Mary Magdalene, and "Judah son of Jesus" — and soil in a burial box inscribed "James son of Joseph brother of Jesus," according to The New York Times.

The Talpiot Tomb was discovered at a construction site in the Jerusalem neighborhood of East Talpiot, or Armon HaNetziv, in 1980. The area had been uninhabited when it was captured by Israel from Jordan in 1967's Six Day War.

The Talpiot findings were popularized in the 2007 documentary "The Lost Tomb of Jesus," produced by James Cameron and written by Simcha Jacobovici, that was broadcast on the Discovery Channel.

The tomb has since been sealed and its burial boxes, or ossuaries, are in the custody of the Israel Antiquities Authority. The James ossuary is in the hands of a private Tel Aviv collector, who has said that he purchased the box in 1976 from an Arab dealer.

In 2012, a Jerusalem court dismissed charges of fraud against the collector brought by Israeli authorities, the Times reported.

Geologist Aryeh Shimron, 79, reported that, after seven years of study, he had identified Rendzina soil in both sets of artifacts, tying the provenance of the James ossuary to the Talpiot Tomb. His lab costs were picked up by Jacobovici, an Israeli-born filmmaker based in Canada, who is planning a follow-up film, according to the Times.

"I think I've got really powerful, virtually unequivocal evidence that the James ossuary spent most of its lifetime, or death time, in the Talpiot Tomb," Shimron told the Times.

If the relics are indeed connected, this could be seen as reinforcing the view that the Jesus of the Talpiot Tomb is the Jesus of the New Testament. Such a claim would be rejected outright by Christians, since it infers burial remains of Jesus of Nazareth and is contrary to the Resurrection.

The burial boxes further infer that "Jesus" was married to Mary Magdalene, and that they had a son named Judah, contrary to the biblical Jesus.

https://www.newsmax.com/...rial-ossuary/2015/04/07/id/636861


Avoid posts with only cut & pastes. Your own words need to be involved.~AdminPhat

Edited by AdminPhat, : admin warning


    
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1523
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 82 of 114 (824096)
11-22-2017 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by New Cat's Eye
11-22-2017 1:35 PM


Re: Evidence that Apostolic tradition that Catholics and Protestants accept is FALSE.
A combo reply to the choir.

The choir said:

quote:

My point is that a reader is generally not interested in reading through your source material.

I scroll right passed those big blocks of copypasta...

They are more interested in your argument in your own words.

Exactly.


Do you even know why I posted (with the paste) what I did?

Several reasons.

First, Phat made it sound like I was looking for what I found.

I was showing him that I read journals and books long ago which alerted me to certain vital facts.

Then the actual issue.

A major factor was my getting a handle on how to deal with this issue of people living to the second half of the second century who were held up as associates of the Apostle John (who is also said to be the author of the 4th Gospel).

I have read the writings of this supposed "disciple of John the Apostle", Polycarp, but it isn't easy to read and be able to catch the author's quotations and - especially! - allusions to very many parts of the whole body of New Testament writings (I find it massively difficult and I just don't trust my reading to be able catch everything from "Apostle John's Gospel" in Polycarp THOUGH THERE IS NOTHING IN HIS EPISTLE QUOTING OR ALLUDING TO THE GOSPEL OF JOHN so ironically I suppose I did the job perfectly fine).

I actually need to see what scholars (and fundamentalists) say about Polycarp's allusions and quotations from the New Testament.

They have the advantage of several hundred years' of scholarship (with critical debate) behind them, while I am only reading English translations of 1900 year old Greek letters.

They will be able to map out the text and provide the concordance which might possibly link it to something in the Gospel of John (I only can definitively once I have read what the results of hundreds of years' of critical scholarship have brought us).

I RECOGNIZE THE IMPORTANCE OF POLYCARP'S WEIGHTY WORDS.

(He and Irenaeus didn't seem to fully understand that some would use their own words against them, though the latter was very slick about words, quotations, and every other aspect of fabrication otherwise)

But, then again, I actually care to address and engage the issue.

I suspect that is what gets me off way into the far side of the left field (and frankly, out of the stadium).

People want a Coke verse Pepsi theological debate while I am seen as smuggling ( I dunno?)vegetarian pizza (or at least a milk shake) into the conversation.

Have you read Polycarp of Smyrna?

One of the churches of Revelation (which was seen as a good one) which was a book that was claimed, again, to have been written by the Apostle John?

Polycarp was into his 30s when the book of Revelation was said to have been written by the Apostle John.

This man seen as is a (the?) lynchpin for the Apostolic authority of the 2nd century apologists (Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, etc. )

I don't see how you can scroll past a paste of scholars making a microscopic examination of the vital 2nd century texts (plus Clement of Rome).

What research have you done?

Do you care about the basis of Roman Catholic (with the fundamentalist Protestant followers) claims?

What research have you done?

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1523
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 84 of 114 (824100)
11-22-2017 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by Aussie
11-22-2017 4:14 PM


Re: Conclusion
quote:

Every religious person in the modern world is believing what they want, with zero evidence

I think it is an issue of whether one is a hypocrite or not.

I admit that I find it annoying that people claim to care about God when they ignore studying the things required that would clue them in on what is more likely than not to distinguish between what is more likely to be fabrication on the one hand verses what is more likely to indicate what is historically possible (and possible in this case means somewhat credible).

There are those who are religious AND who also care enough to try to uncover all the details possible to get close to the truth of what they claim to care about.

Helmut Koester was a great example.

He passed away in 2016 at the age of 89.

He made great contributions way back in the 1950s.

The whole issue of Clement of Rome quoting Matthew (if he did at all) always was framed as whether one had views that were closer to Masseaux or Koester. That was said at the outset whenever a scholar would address the issue of when Matthew was first quoted (and often without any introduction to the two).

I can give an example from a commentary on Matthew (by a first rate scholar). (if anybody cares)


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1523
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 86 of 114 (824107)
11-22-2017 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Aussie
11-22-2017 4:43 PM


Tabor is accused of being a semi-closeted JEW-by-choice
quote:

There are also a very great many serious Islamic scholars who think very deeply about their articles of faith, and what they believe. I mean, you don't think Christianity is all alone with its share of Scholars, do you?
But again, these intelligent, deeply thinking Scholars are commenting on things with absolutely no evidence at all! Your Christian Scholars have the exact quality of evidence as Islamic scholars, or Scholars of any religion. You naturally give more Credence to the Christian Scholars, because they confirm to you what you want to be true, without evidence again.

So I'm not too sue you picked the right thread (or the right person) to make this accusation in this light.

quote:

Revisiting New Testament: Was Jesus Just a Normal Human Being?

In a new book, Prof. James Tabor of the University of North Carolina says that history clearly shows Jesus never claimed to be G-d in his lifetime.

Susan Wolf, 14/06/09

....
A Ben Noah
In The Jesus Dynasty, Tabor presented a historical investigation of Jesus and his family with ideas that naturally antagonize many from the Roman Catholic Church. When asked why he doesn’t consider conversion to Judaism, Tabor explains that alongside his love for Judaism and his knowledge that the Jews are G-d’s chosen people, he believes the Jews are meant to be a minority in G-d’s divine plan, and he is comfortable with his place as a declared Ben Noah or Noahide. The belief in Israel’s mission to bring light to the world does not necessitate that everyone be Jewish, he says.

Moreover, Prof. Tabor believes that he can accomplish substantially more from outside of Judaism, and therefore continues his research and writings with the hope that he can expose Christianity and all religions to a proper historical investigation.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/131857


So, that might have to be my response. (however pasted it might be)

(You managed to read quite a lot into my post)


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1523
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 88 of 114 (824111)
11-22-2017 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by Coyote
11-21-2017 12:22 AM


Science can actually be flawed massively?
quote:

The IP starts out, "Science proves that..."
What follows is pages of religious belief and closely related matters, with no appreciable relationship to science.

This is particularly true as science does not "prove" anything, but comes up with verifiable explanations for given sets of facts. Belief, scriptures, and the like have nothing to do with science.


What do you think about this?

quote:

DISCOVER MAGAZINE
NOVEMBER 2009

The Super Cell
by Jeanne Lenzer

....
P.36
Many patients may not really know what they are getting into when they agree to stem cell treatments beyond the very few that have proved effective. The researchers themselves may not know the real risks, in part because doctors may be reluctant to report bad outcomes. In the medical community, there is a tendency not to publish negative results, and if such data are submitted, medical journals may be less likely to accept them for publication. As a result, researchers can end up repeating the same failed experiments, putting patients at unnecessary risk.

To assess risk, Thomas Adamkiewicz, co director of the Hemoglobinopathy/Genomics Training Program at Morehouse School of Medicine in Atlanta, surveyed four medical centers and fond that seven children with sickle-cell disease had been treated with umbilical cord blood from unrelated donors. Only four of the seven cases had been published, and the three unpublished cases had worse outcomes overall, including one death. “Doctors who want to treat patients with stem cells might look at the published data and conclude, ‘Oh, this is good,’” Adamkiewicz says, “but when you see the results for all seven, it’s not as rosy a picture.


Is there a selection bias among medical journals?

This means that science-minded communities don't take in the WHOLE truth, right?

They don't take not or publish everything relevant to getting the total picture, right?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Coyote, posted 11-21-2017 12:22 AM Coyote has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by Coyote, posted 11-22-2017 10:07 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

    
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1523
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 89 of 114 (824112)
11-22-2017 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by Aussie
11-22-2017 5:15 PM


Re: Tabor is accused of being a semi-closeted JEW-by-choice
quote:

but you believe Jesus Christ will return as per the Book of Revelation, on a flying horse. Historical figures, wrapped up in magic. And all you have given are commentaries on a book describing magical events. Why should I believe your Scholars anymore than any other Scholars of any other religion?

You seem to have already decided what you want to say.

I don't know where to begin, with all of these non-starter comments (do you mistake me for another poster?)

Martin Luther didn't even believe in Revelation being authored by John the Apostle or any inspired writer.

As I am all alone in pointing out.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1523
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 92 of 114 (824129)
11-22-2017 10:56 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Coyote
11-22-2017 10:07 PM


Re: Science can actually be flawed massively?
I'm saying that there are real problems with science at large.

And the fact that many scientists can't even see the multiple scientific methods that have been vigorously at play (like the patina issue and the multi year courtroom drama) in the James Ossuary issue speaks volumes.

Ignorance isn't going to stop me from telling the truth.

Heck, I had a great interest in the world learning more about James LONG BEFORE THIS OSSUARY DISCOVERY.

It was a good discovery, but people claimed the BROTHER OF JESUS part of the inscription was a forgery.

It was proven to be authentic using science.

Then people claimed that the authentic "James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus" wasn't part of the Talpiot Tomb (where a Jesus, son of Joseph was buried).

The scientific process proved that there was a very unique and precise chemical composition (due to soil filling the Talpiot Tomb) in both the Tomb and the specific James Ossuary.

2 for 2.

(The DNA might not matter much, except if one wants to know if the Mary is related to Jesus. Better to know than not, but I sure wish the other Ossuaries had DNA that wasn't completely ruined)

(The patina was almost ruined by bleach too)


This message is a reply to:
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LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1523
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 95 of 114 (824144)
11-23-2017 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by Pressie
11-23-2017 6:25 AM


Re: Science can actually be flawed massively?
quote:

To me this one is always funny when it's done on the Interwebs.

"I'm saying that there are real problems with science at large."


Carl Sagan said that the suppression of unpopular truths might be typical in religion and politics, but it has no place in the endeavor of science.

So I don't find it funny to find out that there is a selection bias among scientists when it comes to publishing (negative) results.

It seems to have resulted in dangerous treatments being made to look not so dangerous.

Again, not funny.

But it shows that there can be a bias in publication and exposure which translates into flawed knowledge.

There is a deficiency of knowledge and it can, at times, be dangerous.

It is hard to pay attention to something vitally important when it isn't published due to bias.

This can explain why the scientific tests, regarding the James Ossuary & Talpiot Tomb, don't seem to be recognized as scientific. People seem to be choosing to see what they want to see (even scientists will fail to see the "science" in the story though it is all over it if one knows the details).

I have witness it multiple times on this thread alone.

And even by scientists themselves (though by no means limited to them).

Amazing.


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LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1523
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 98 of 114 (824714)
12-02-2017 4:15 PM


A ray of sunshine (new James discovery is a semi-hot story December 2017
I put this search term into google (news tab):

james brother discovery text scholar

Look what was found

quote:

(0.40 seconds)

Search Results

Story image for james brother discovery text scholar from Daily Mail

Heretical Greek text of 'Jesus' secret teachings to his brother James ...

Daily Mail-Dec 1, 2017

Heretical Greek text of 'Jesus' secret teachings to his brother James' is discovered by biblical scholars in Oxford after being lost for 1,600 years ... "This new discovery is significant in part because it demonstrates that Christians were still reading and studying extra-canonical writings long after Christian ...

Heretical text of secret teachings of Jesus lost for 1500 years ...
The Independent-Dec 1, 2017

Ancient copy of Jesus's secret papyrus teachings to his brother ...
International Business Times UK-Dec 1, 2017

1500-YO Heretical 'First Apocalypse of James' Text Copy Found ...
Christian Post-Dec 1, 2017

First Copy of Jesus's Secret Writings to His Brother Recovered From ...
Highly Cited-Newsweek-Dec 1, 2017

Apocalypse of James: Lost original Greek text of banned Bible book ...
Highly Cited-NEWS.com.au-Nov 30, 2017

Copy of 'Jesus' secret revelations to his brother' discovered by ...

Science Daily-Nov 30, 2017

But earlier this year, UT Austin religious studies scholars Geoffrey Smith and Brent Landau added to the list with their discovery of several fifth- or sixth-century Greek fragments of the First Apocalypse of James, which was thought to have been preserved only in its Coptic translations until now. "To say that ...


It is an extant Greek text, of something that we already had in Coptic (the Greek text itself is earlier) . But the "paper-copy" chronologically is LATER, than the Coptic "paper", as far as the actual age of the copy.

Old text.

Newer "paper" and ink.

A new copy.

But, it is significant because it offers us hope that other, more important earlier documents (like the Gospel of the Hebrews) will be found to have been copied and studied .

And Egypt offers hope.

LOOK at this issue

quote:

The lost languages of Egypt: Hi-tech cameras help archaeologists find ancient works hidden in monastery parchment in discovery hailed as a 'new golden age'
Scientists have found a series of ancient works using new imaging techniques
The method allows experts to see text that has been scrubbed off of parchment
Scripts found include documents written in extremely rare languages
The earliest copies of texts from Greek physician Hippocrates were also found

By Harry Pettit For Mailonline

Published: 05:11 EST, 28 August 2017 | Updated: 12:22 EST, 28 August 2017

Ancient works hidden underneath monastery scriptures have been uncovered using imaging technology that pieced together words originally scrubbed off.

The team found a series of lost texts using a method that allows scientists to restore ancient documents that were written over long ago to save on expensive parchment.

The discoveries at Saint Catherine's monastery on the Sinai peninsula, Egypt, signal a 'new golden age of discovery', the scientists behind the research said.

Scroll down for video

Other lost ancient texts could be revealed using the new technique, which involves taking pictures of parchment from several angles and using different parts of the light spectrum.

Among several new texts discovered by researchers from the Early Manuscripts Electronic Library in California were documents written in rare languages, the Times reports.

These include Caucasian Albanian, which had only been known from scattered stone inscriptions until now.

Three ancient Greek medical texts that were previously unknown to scholars were also revealed, as well as the earliest copies of some texts from famed Greek physician Hippocrates.

(much more text in article)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/...guages-Egyptian-monastery.html


A very important technique that could offer earth shaking (no stretch and this could be BiG - eventually) discoveries.

The web page also has nice maps, videos, and sidebars.

A side bar

quote:

HOW DID THEY DO IT?

Parchment was once extremely valuable, meaning it was often reused.

Monks commonly wrote copies of the Bible on top of old texts, meaning many ancient texts have been lost.

But the researchers say that long lost documents, such as those written by ancient philosopher Aristotle, could now be rediscovered on texts in libraries across the world using their technique.

They used photographs taken from a number of angles and using different parts of the light spectrum to reveal traces of ink left by early scribes before the text was washed off.

Images of the parchment are then combined using computer algorithms to highlight the text beneath.


This is the oldest continually running monastery in the world. Lots of erased texts, so hopefully we can find some really important stuff (especially the from the more-important Early Christian Alexandrian Period of the first few centuries of the common era. Alexandria is not in a climate where texts are preserved, unfortunately)

But back to the James discovery (hot off the NEWSWEEK press).

quote:

First Copy of Jesus’s Secret Writings to His Brother Recovered From Antiquity in Original Greek

By Kastalia Medrano On 11/30/17 at 5:33 PM

....

"This new discovery is significant in part because it demonstrates that Christians were still reading and studying extra-canonical writings long after Christian leaders deemed them heretical," Geoffrey Smith, an assistant professor of religious studies at The University of Texas at Austin and one of the two scholars who made the discovery, told Newsweek via email.

Smith and fellow religious scholar Brent Landau announced the discovery at the Society of Biblical Literature Annual Meeting in Boston. The heretical Christian writings describe Jesus teaching his brother James, in secret, about future events, including James’s own death. As Smith explained in the UT Austin press release, writings that added to or changed the existing New Testament in any way were forbidden.

"Jesus tells his brother James that though they are both going to die violently, death is not something to be feared," Landau, a lecturer at the UT Austin Department of Religious Studies, told Newsweek over email. "All James needs is to remember the passwords that his brother has taught him, so that he can escape from the clutches of the archons, a set of demonic beings guarding the material world."

Landau explained in a release that the scribe separated the majority of the text using "mid-dots," which broke words down into individual syllables. That was not a common practice at the time; the exception would be in educational contexts, which is why Smith and Landau believed the text was a teaching tool.

"To say that we were excited once we realized what we'd found is an understatement," Smith said in a release. "We never suspected that Greek fragments of the First Apocalypse of James survived from antiquity. But there they were, right in front of us."

http://www.newsweek.com/...d-antiquity-original-greek-727815


Let us hope this is a harbinger of what is to come.

The tip of the iceberg?

I hope so because I am wondering just what was in the "Gospel According to the Hebrews".

Harnack dated it to 65-100 C.E. and the Papias testimony seems to back that early dating up.

(Papias' reference has been redated to 110 A.D. by several scholars and it should be known that his writings were dated around 140 during the time of Adolf Harnack)

I am wondering if the Egyptian Gospel of the Hebrews should be seen as separate from the Gospel of the Nazarenes (the latter is seen as a translation from Greek Matthew into Hebrew/Aramaic while the former is seen as a Greek text that perhaps had sources that largely came from a somewhat different orbit than Matthew) or will the two be seen as part of a larger text?

I want to get some answers already.


    
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1523
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 111 of 114 (825553)
12-16-2017 12:57 AM


Candidia Moss on the "new" James textual discovery.
The news page is still getting new posts.

https://www.bing.com/news/search?q=james+brother+jesus&FO...

The young scholar (who wrote a book documenting the Roman Empire Christians stealing genuine stories of Manicheans who were THE ONES suffering martyrdom under Pagan Rome) wrote for the Daily Beast 5 days ago.

quote:

For much of the sixty years since the First Apocalypse of James was discovered among the Nag Hammadi texts it has been attributed to an ancient group of Christians known to their opponents as the ‘Gnostics.’ According to Christian tradition, Gnostics believed that the material world was created by an inferior and malicious deity, that gnosis (‘knowledge’) would help enlighten Christians to escape this world and return to the real transcendent deity, that suffering and martyrdom should be avoided, and that the body was useless and irrelevant.

Recent scholarship has questioned the accuracy of this caricature and suggested instead that the Gnostics were philosophically inclined Christians who were in many ways identical to their more orthodox counterparts (others have questioned if Gnostics existed at all as an identifiable group and argue that the term is just a polemical invention).

As scholars have begun to re-examine the content of Gnosticism, our impression of the First Apocalypse of James has changed. According to the stereotype, Gnostics are supposed to want to avoid martyrdom. But as Harvard-educated scholar Mikael Haxby showed in his important doctoral thesis, the First Apocalypse of James found in the Codex Tchacos not only discusses martyrdom, it sees it as something to be embraced should the situation arise.

Interestingly the new Greek version, which follows the Codex Tchacos text quite closely, seems to present some more orthodox readings. At one point where the Codex Tchacos reads “holy seed,” the Greek version has “holy spirit.”

Landau told The Daily Beast, “Talk of a holy or divine seed…was common in the second and third centuries among Christians like the author of the First Apocalypse of James who wanted to find ways to emphasize the continuity between God and humanity. But the change to ‘Holy Spirit’ in the Greek fragments suggests that a later scribe wanted to bring the text into conformity with the emerging Trinitarian theology of the day.”


Keep checking the modern scholarship.

Don't be discouraged if only a sliver of modern "Christians" care about the facts.

Just because they don't want to know that the known (to Jerome!) Hebrew Matthew Gospel had Jesus saying at his Last Supper that his sacrifice was to replace all MEAT EATING , doesn't mean it isn't monumentally important.

Ignorance still rules, for sure.

But.

A new discovery could be around the corner, and all could change.


    
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1523
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 112 of 114 (826040)
12-20-2017 11:47 PM


The Monastery in Sinai has the attention of scientific sites (only 22 hour's old
https://scienceblog.com/...-online-international-partnership

quote:

Technology

Lost ancient texts recovered and published online through international partnership

December 20, 2017


Recent articles from AFTER my post.

Found my putting this term into google news:

sinai palimpsests

quote:

About 187 results (0.29 seconds)

Search Results

Story image for sinai palimpsests from UCLA Newsroom

Lost ancient texts recovered and published online through ...

UCLA Newsroom-Dec 19, 2017

The Sinai Palimpsests Project contains 74 palimpsests totaling some 6,800 pages in 10 languages and containing erased layers of writing from the fifth to the 12th centuries. They are accessible to students, scholars and the public at sinaipalimpsests.org. “By revealing these long-hidden materials and ...

UCLA Researchers Help Discover Ancient Greek Mythological And ...
LAWestMedia.com (blog)-Dec 19, 2017
View all

Story image for sinai palimpsests from International Business Times UK

These spectacular ancient texts were lost for centuries, and now ...

International Business Times UK-15 hours ago

Sinai Palimpsests Project. Researchers have discovered a host of previously unknown ancient texts that have remained hidden for centuries in the vaults of Saint Catherine's Monastery in Egypt's Sinai Peninsula. The manuscripts were recovered as part of a project designed to preserve important historical ...

Story image for sinai palimpsests from TIME

Egypt Reopens Ancient Library Holding Thousands of Centuries-Old ...

TIME-Dec 16, 2017

At least 160 of the manuscripts include faint scratches and ink tints beneath more recent writing, according to Kazamias, who believes the palimpsests were ... It's situated at the foot of Mount Sinai, also known as Jebel Musa or Mount Horeb, where Moses is said to have received the Ten Commandments.


There are hopefully more manuscripts that can be looked at than the roughly 100 so far discovered to be palimpsests. (the vast majority in the Sinai library weren't written over)

quote:

Science
| Archaeology

These spectacular ancient texts were lost for centuries, and now they can be viewed online

Writings include previously unknown Greek mythological works and the oldest surviving copy of the gospels in Arabic.

By Aristos Georgiou
December 20, 2017 13:35 GMT

....
Previously unknown texts in the extinct language Christian Palestine Aramaic describing the story of an early Christian martyr were also found, as well as early biblical texts in numerous other languages - including the oldest surviving copy of the gospels in Arabic.

Researchers also found the earliest surviving copies of several Hippocratic medical treatises and a previously unknown mythological poem from ancient Greece which mentions Zeus, Hades, Hera, Hermes and Persephone.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/...hey-can-be-viewed-online-1652320


Hopefully there will be more important discoveries than what was made so far.

This library has the 2nd largest collection of old manuscripts in the world (the Vatican has more).

I don't know if the Vatican manuscripts have write over erasures like the Sinai collection has.


    
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1523
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 113 of 114 (845537)
12-16-2018 9:32 PM


This Jesus Familt Tomb issue has gotten the attention of the top experts.
I just got the 592 page James Charlesworth (ed.) book (with a nice discount) from Amazon for $20.01 shipped (thanks to an 8% Nebraska sales tax, it was a few dollars higher than it should have been).

It just went back up to $37.99 in less than 12 hours (still lower than around $50, when I posted this article).

https://www.amazon.com/...is-Family-Jerusalems/dp/0802867456

Most (almost all) of the contributors don't share the views of Tabor and Simcha Jacobovici .

quote:

Addresses a much-contested archaeological discovery

In 1980 archaeologists unearthed a tomb near Jerusalem that contained a family's ossuaries inscribed with some familiar New Testament names, including Mary, Joseph, and Jesus. In 2007 the Discovery Channel produced and broadcast a documentary called The Lost Tomb of Jesus, raising interest -- and controversy -- among the public and specialists alike. Could this actually be the tomb of Jesus and his family?

In January of 2008 a group of internationally renowned scholars from a broad range of disciplines met in Jerusalem to discuss that very question. Covering the archaeological facts about the discovery, Jewish burial customs during the late Second Temple period, first-century inscriptions, the Talpiot tomb, the James ossuary, the Holy Sepulcher, and more,this volume presents their expert perspectives on a much-publicized topic.

Contributors:Mordechai Aviam, Wolfgang E. Krumbein,
James H. Charlesworth, André Lemaire,
Claude Cohen-Matlofsky, Lee Martin McDonald,
April D. DeConick, Charles Pellegrino,
Casey D. Elledge, Stephen Pfann,
Mark Elliott, Petr Pokorný,
Howard R. Feldman, Jonathan J. Price,
Joseph A. Fitzmyer, Christopher A. Rollston,
Camil Fuchs, Amnon Rosenfeld,
Shimon Gibson, Jane Schaberg,
Rachel Hachlili, Andrew V. Sills,
Eldad Keynan, Mark Spigelman,
Kevin Kilty, James D. Tabor,
Amos Kloner, Konstantinos Th. Zarras,
,
Watch an interview with James H. Charlesworth below:,


The marketplace still has lots of books that are under $20 plus shipping (they tend to go up and down depending on the actual Amazon price).

(one is about $21.99 with free shipping)

https://www.amazon.com/...0802867456/ref=tmm_pap_used_olp_sr

The 2013 Tabor and Jacobovici,The Jesus Discovery: The New Archaeological Find That Reveals the Birth of Christianity, can be gotten for about 25 cents (plus shipping) on the Amazon marketplace.

The initial bombshell book, by Jacobovici, came out in 2007. The discovery was expected to be ignored by the leading experts in the field. It actually has not been. And the 592 page James Charlesworth (ed.) book is proof of that.

I doubt there will be any bombshells, though the finding of the DNA of a Jesus, son of Joseph, broth of James raises hope that the Pantiera (from Germany) DNA can be somehow found (it wont be).

quote:

Tiberius Julius Abdes Pantera - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiberius_Julius_Abdes_Pantera
Jump to Hypothesis concerning a connection to Jesus - Tiberius Julius Abdes Pantera was a Roman soldier whose tombstone was found in Bingerbrück, ...

Tabor has been researching the issue and has now 16 posts (he promised back in 2016 to keep doing unprecedented research on the German tomb of the Sidonian - Canaanite! - Pantiera)

https://jamestabor.com/?s=pantera

His German tombstone says he was born in 22 BCE and died 40 AD.

The pagan Celsus and the Talmud says Jesus was the son of a Roman soldier Pantiera.

This Pantiera was a Roman soldier.

(However,it was a common name for soldiers, being the word for Panther. Spanish-speaking folks commonly call their dogs, Pantera, if they happen to be black and are assumed to be strong and protective. I know of one "Pantera" guard-dog here in Nebraska)

This whole tomb issue is a really cool discovery.

Just remember that this discovery has touched on several areas of science, and a new scientific technique came about from this controversial tomb find.


    
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1523
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 114 of 114 (845538)
12-16-2018 9:33 PM


This Jesus Family Tomb issue has gotten the attention of the top experts.
I just got the 592 page James Charlesworth (ed.) book (with a nice discount) from Amazon for $20.01 shipped (thanks to an 8% Nebraska sales tax, it was a few dollars higher than it should have been).

It just went back up to $37.99 in less than 12 hours (still lower than around $50, when I posted this article).

https://www.amazon.com/...is-Family-Jerusalems/dp/0802867456

Most (almost all) of the contributors don't share the views of Tabor and Simcha Jacobovici .

quote:

Addresses a much-contested archaeological discovery

In 1980 archaeologists unearthed a tomb near Jerusalem that contained a family's ossuaries inscribed with some familiar New Testament names, including Mary, Joseph, and Jesus. In 2007 the Discovery Channel produced and broadcast a documentary called The Lost Tomb of Jesus, raising interest -- and controversy -- among the public and specialists alike. Could this actually be the tomb of Jesus and his family?

In January of 2008 a group of internationally renowned scholars from a broad range of disciplines met in Jerusalem to discuss that very question. Covering the archaeological facts about the discovery, Jewish burial customs during the late Second Temple period, first-century inscriptions, the Talpiot tomb, the James ossuary, the Holy Sepulcher, and more,this volume presents their expert perspectives on a much-publicized topic.

Contributors:Mordechai Aviam, Wolfgang E. Krumbein,
James H. Charlesworth, André Lemaire,
Claude Cohen-Matlofsky, Lee Martin McDonald,
April D. DeConick, Charles Pellegrino,
Casey D. Elledge, Stephen Pfann,
Mark Elliott, Petr Pokorný,
Howard R. Feldman, Jonathan J. Price,
Joseph A. Fitzmyer, Christopher A. Rollston,
Camil Fuchs, Amnon Rosenfeld,
Shimon Gibson, Jane Schaberg,
Rachel Hachlili, Andrew V. Sills,
Eldad Keynan, Mark Spigelman,
Kevin Kilty, James D. Tabor,
Amos Kloner, Konstantinos Th. Zarras,
,
Watch an interview with James H. Charlesworth below:,


The marketplace still has lots of books that are under $20 plus shipping (they tend to go up and down depending on the actual Amazon price).

(one is about $21.99 with free shipping)

https://www.amazon.com/...0802867456/ref=tmm_pap_used_olp_sr

The 2013 Tabor and Jacobovici,The Jesus Discovery: The New Archaeological Find That Reveals the Birth of Christianity, can be gotten for about 25 cents (plus shipping) on the Amazon marketplace.

The initial bombshell book, by Jacobovici, came out in 2007. The discovery was expected to be ignored by the leading experts in the field. It actually has not been. And the 592 page James Charlesworth (ed.) book is proof of that.

I doubt there will be any bombshells, though the finding of the DNA of a Jesus, son of Joseph, broth of James raises hope that the Pantiera (from Germany) DNA can be somehow found (it wont be).

quote:

Tiberius Julius Abdes Pantera - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiberius_Julius_Abdes_Pantera
Jump to Hypothesis concerning a connection to Jesus - Tiberius Julius Abdes Pantera was a Roman soldier whose tombstone was found in Bingerbrück, ...

Tabor has been researching the issue and has now 16 posts (he promised back in 2016 to keep doing unprecedented research on the German tomb of the Sidonian - Canaanite! - Pantiera)

https://jamestabor.com/?s=pantera

His German tombstone says he was born in 22 BCE and died 40 AD.

The pagan Celsus and the Talmud says Jesus was the son of a Roman soldier Pantiera.

This Pantiera was a Roman soldier.

(However,it was a common name for soldiers, being the word for Panther. Spanish-speaking folks commonly call their dogs, Pantera, if they happen to be black and are assumed to be strong and protective. I know of one "Pantera" guard-dog here in Nebraska)

This whole tomb issue is a really cool discovery.

Just remember that this discovery has touched on several areas of science, and a new scientific technique came about from this controversial tomb find.

Edited by AdminPhat, : spelling in subtitle


    
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