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Author Topic:   The Tension of Faith
Percy
Member
Posts: 20761
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(2)
Message 1442 of 1540 (826247)
12-27-2017 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 1441 by Faith
12-26-2017 2:59 PM


Re: Does True Christian Faith Mean Loving All?
Faith writes:

ABE: Answer to title: Yes the Christian Faith means loving everyone, but loving everyone doesn't mean encouraging sin or violations of God's Law, and it doesn't mean supporting secular laws that do that either.

Yes, we know you think Christians should be able to choose which secular laws they follow.

It also doesn't mean making nicey- nice with people who say idiotic or blasphemous things about true Christianity. /abe

Matthew 5:39.

My God IS the Judge of all the Earth. He's the Creator God who created the whole earth and everything in it and all human b eings and all the rest of the universe. He owns it all.

Yes, this is what you believe on faith.

My views of sin are derived from His Word, which He gave to the whole human race to save us from our natural ignorance.

My views of sin are a combination of outside influences and what I feel inside.

God IS Love and Love can't coexist with sin;

If God is love and permeates the universe, then since sin is in the universe, obviously God can coexist with sin.

that's the reason for God's judgments against sin.

Since God is obviously coexisting with sin, it cannot be the reason for His judgments against sin.

He's long suffering with us, giving us plenty of time to repent, but eventually He will come to judge the whole Earth. That is what His Word says.

This is what you believe on faith.

You really ought to pay attention. There's still time to repent and be saved.

Thanks for your concern. I'm fine. If repenting means hating I don't want any part of it. You don't seem to realize what a horrible advertisement for Christianity you are.

True freedom, speaking of Trump, does not save criminals from punishment. Sheesh.

Politicians of integrity don't seek to lock up their political opponents.

OK, now THAT should be all I say on this subject. I've spent the last thirty years learning about Christian theology only to get treated like I made it all up by absolute know-nothing unbelievers like you.

I know that living a Godly life means loving your fellow man.

Anyway I have to go hear a book reading program on Pilgrim Radio anyway. You can listen too, just go to Pilgrim Radio dot com. 2017 has been the 500th Anniversary of the Protestant Reformation and the book being read is a biography of Luther. It's been really interesting so far..

Martin Luther: The Man Who Rediscovered God and Changed the World is available as an audiobook from OverDrive, which works through your local library and is free - click the link that starts this sentence.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1441 by Faith, posted 12-26-2017 2:59 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1444 by Faith, posted 12-27-2017 12:24 PM Percy has seen this message
 Message 1445 by Faith, posted 12-27-2017 12:32 PM Percy has replied
 Message 1446 by NoNukes, posted 12-27-2017 1:34 PM Percy has seen this message

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20761
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 1447 of 1540 (826269)
12-27-2017 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 1443 by Faith
12-27-2017 12:18 PM


Re: Tension from Faith
Faith writes:

In my opinion, your weakness is that you never entertain opinions and beliefs contrary to your own.

Came across this again and want to answer it again. A Christian who has spent years studying the faith, the Bible, theology, does not have to entertain opinions and beliefs contrary to the established traditional faith.

Years of study is not the yardstick. Many have spent many more years than you studying views different from your own. By your yardstick they don't have to consider your views, either.

But faith isn't about intolerance. True faith should make us more tolerant, not less. Being secure in your on faith means wishing other people the best in finding their own path to God, rather than coercing them into accepting your God.

What a bizarre idea Phat. What a worldly capitulation. Biblcial Christianity is not a mere academic subject that should be batted about in the world's forums, it's God's own revelation and it has authority over everything else.

You interpret God's revelation in the Bible one way, others interpret it another, yet others don't believe the Bible is God's revelation at all.

If I hold heretical views they need correction, but by the Church, not by unbelievers.

Everyone has to find the views that work best for them. True faith is much more than just following a set of rules someone else provides about what to believe.

Your critics say that you are part of the cult of Biblical Christianity.

There is no such thing.

Evangelicalism doesn't have all the characteristics of a cult, but it has plenty. Beliefs are exalted above the beliefs of all other groups. Questioning and doubt are discouraged. There's a great deal of detail about what to believe. An us versus them attitude is encouraged. There's a brainwashed quality to believers.

That's an invention of unbelievers, just an attack on Christianity. Your whole attitude in this post represents your personal capitulation to God's enemies.

Yours is not the only path to God.

This is why you need to wake up. You've managed to convince me that you are a Christian...

You keep setting yourself up as God.

...in spite of this kind of deviation, but you are so confused and vacillating and prone to accept false doctrine it is very hard to tell. You treat unbelieving opinions as equal to Christian theology, apparently for the sake of getting along, which is NOT what God wants of us -- we are to be a counter to the world, not give in to it. "Be not conformed to the world..."

I grant that Phat's beliefs sometimes give the impression of having a kind of flaccid quality, but it seems to me that he's struggling with conflicts between what be believes, what he thinks he should believe, and who he is. My own personal feedback to him would be that the Christian God is no more real than Zeus or Thor, but I don't think that's what he feels inside, and I don't think it would work for him.

I used to think and believe that it was a sign of the last days, as you still probably do.

I think we must be getting very close for a lot of reasons but as far as I can make sense of your remark, a war on ideology isn't one of them.

The real end days are billions of years off.

What on EARTH are you talking about? If anything the Christian Church has compromised so far with the world these days we have no clout at all. Our values aren't leading anybody anywhere, they've been buried under mountains of worldly compromise along the same lines that you seem to be espousing.

I think most people see precisely the opposite. Evangelicals seem unwilling to compromise or be accepting enough of other views to sell wedding cakes to anyone.

You really do need to wake up. You need to learn something about your Christian faith if you really are a Christian.

Matthew 7:1.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1443 by Faith, posted 12-27-2017 12:18 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1451 by Faith, posted 12-27-2017 4:39 PM Percy has replied
 Message 1453 by Faith, posted 12-27-2017 4:58 PM Percy has replied
 Message 1467 by Faith, posted 12-28-2017 1:45 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20761
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 1448 of 1540 (826270)
12-27-2017 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1445 by Faith
12-27-2017 12:32 PM


Re: Does True Christian Faith Mean Loving All?
Faith writes:

I know that living a Godly life means loving your fellow man.

What you don't know is what loving your fellow man means in reality. You have the usual mushheaded liberal notions that deny sin, deny the Fall, deny Hell, deny God, etc.

Well, let's be clear about it. I don't just deny sin, deny the Fall, deny Hell, deny God, etc. I don't believe much of anything you believe. I particularly don't believe in telling other people what to believe.

And I especially don't think many reading this thread would see your judgmental theology as possessing much love. Your religion casts shadows of The Handmaid's Tale.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1445 by Faith, posted 12-27-2017 12:32 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1449 by Faith, posted 12-27-2017 4:34 PM Percy has replied
 Message 1454 by Faith, posted 12-27-2017 5:54 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20761
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 1459 of 1540 (826291)
12-28-2017 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 1449 by Faith
12-27-2017 4:34 PM


Re: Does True Christian Faith Mean Loving All?
Faith writes:

You don't even know what judgmental means. I don't talk about people,...

Ah, I see, you weren't being judgmental when you said we'll be sorry on judgment day. You weren't being judgmental when you said gays should be discriminated against. You weren't being judgmental when you called Islam a murderous religion.

I hardly ever judge people moralistically,...

Well, thank God for that! I guess it's safe to talk about my molestation of little girls, my inappropriate office banter, and my jaywalking.

...which is what Horowitz described the Left doing as I mentioned a while back, I'm talking about doctrines, laws, ideas, I'm not talking about gays but about the law that legalizes gay marriage, not about the women who have abortions but the law that legalizes it. THESE THINGS BRING THE NATION DEEPER INTO GOD'S WRATH.

Yes, and we all know what happens when a nation incurs God's wrath, especially in all caps. He calls in Joshua to murder all the men, women and children.

I'm not even judging the Muslim refugees, but the political thinking that ignores their dangerous ideology in order to subject Americans to that potential danger. Their ideology is dangerous but they are victims of it, I don't hold them morally responsible for it. Judgmentalness is judging, in fact condemning, people for sin.

I think your rationalizations are tying you into a bunch of rhetorical knots.

Your moralistic denunciations of me personally are actually examples of that, not anything I've said.

Your statements of judgment and hate have become too obvious to ignore, they're so emphatic and repetitive.

I've said nothing about hating anyway, but I do hate hateful ideas, doctrines, laws and ideologies that violate God's law or are dangerous for human beings.

So you've said nothing about hating anything, but you do hate this, that and the other thing. More Queen of Hearts stuff.

There's a logical failure in your thinking.

Couldn't prove it by what you've just said in your message.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1449 by Faith, posted 12-27-2017 4:34 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1465 by Faith, posted 12-28-2017 1:03 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20761
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 1460 of 1540 (826293)
12-28-2017 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 1451 by Faith
12-27-2017 4:39 PM


Re: Tension from Faith
No need for me to reply, I think PaulK already said it all in Message 1455.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1451 by Faith, posted 12-27-2017 4:39 PM Faith has taken no action

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20761
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 1461 of 1540 (826295)
12-28-2017 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 1453 by Faith
12-27-2017 4:58 PM


Re: Tension from Faith
1453 writes:

The years I've put in ought to spare me the idiotic accusation of making up my theology. That's all I was saying.

Yes, I know what you were saying, and I explained why it was wrong. Others have put even more years into studying their theologies, and if the number of years spent in study is the yardstick by which the truth of a theology is measured, then your theology loses.

You never answered the question of how you know you're not the one being manipulated by Satan.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1453 by Faith, posted 12-27-2017 4:58 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1464 by Faith, posted 12-28-2017 1:01 PM Percy has seen this message
 Message 1466 by Faith, posted 12-28-2017 1:43 PM Percy has seen this message

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20761
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 1462 of 1540 (826296)
12-28-2017 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 1454 by Faith
12-27-2017 5:54 PM


Re: Does True Christian Faith Mean Loving All?
Faith writes:

I guess a person befriending a gay neighbor who recently lost his partner of many decades doesn't count s love if we don't support gay marriage? Having the neighbot over to Thanksgiving dinner isn't love either, right? Taking him shopping because his eyes are going bad, does that count? Naa, only leftist politics counts as love in this weird upside-down modern world.

And yet if your gay neighbor tried to get married you'd turn on him in a second. You love a book, not people.

abe: As for abortion, there are churches all over this country that run crisis pregnancy centers to help girls and women with unwanted pregnancies. Some of them also run living quarters with room and board for the duration of the pregnancy. They offer counseling, help getting jobs or going back to school, help with adoption if that's the woman's choice, or with being able to care for the child herself. But that's not love I guess. Only killing the baby is love.

Allowing women to have control over their own bodies and make their own choices in life is love.

Then there are the Muslim refugees. I already described how many Christians are going to them in their refugee camps to give all kinds of needed help. But that's not love either, right?

They're in refugee camps because countries in Europe and the US deny them immigration. Their plight has parallels to that of the Jews in the years leading up to WWII.

Meanwhile, the topic here has not been about people but about law, doctrine, and so on. I do hate evil laws and doctrines, passionately.

You're the Mikey of Life.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1454 by Faith, posted 12-27-2017 5:54 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1463 by Faith, posted 12-28-2017 12:59 PM Percy has seen this message

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20761
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 1471 of 1540 (826311)
12-28-2017 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1467 by Faith
12-28-2017 1:45 PM


Re: Tension from Faith
I'll answer all your replies in this post.

Replying to your Message 1463:

Faith writes:

Why would I turn on him? I wouldn't support a wedding but I wouldn't end a friendship if he pursued it.

So when this friend with bad eyesight needed help picking out a wedding cake, you'd be there for him?

Defining murder as having control over your body is insane.

Defining love as telling other people what to do is what is insane.

Helping the refugees where they are is the best we can do and it is loving them. The situation is NOT the same as with the Jews. We wouldn't refuse the Muslims if their ideology weren't murderous.

Ah, yes, I can just feel the love. Glad you're not the judgmental type.

No idea what "mikey" refers to.

The Life cereal "Mikey hates everything" commercials from a half century ago. That's why I called you the Mikey of Life.

Moving on to your Message 1464:

Faith writes:

Percy writes:

You never answered the question of how you know you're not the one being manipulated by Satan.

I have answered that evil accusation. I know God, I know the Bible, I understand Christian theology and I know how Satan works.

How would you know whether you've been communing with the great deceiver?

Moving on to your Message 1466:

Faith writes:

Percy writes:

Yes, I know what you were saying, and I explained why it was wrong. Others have put even more years into studying their theologies, and if the number of years spent in study is the yardstick by which the truth of a theology is measured, then your theology loses.

Obviously you DON'T know what I was saying. I said it proves I didn't make it up, nothing about whether it is true.

Well, if it isn't true then it must be made up or wrong or mistaken or something along those lines.

But of course it is in any case.

You have faith that your theology is true, not evidence.

Moving on to your Message 1467:

Faith writes:

Percy writes:

The real end days are billions of years off.

Interesting. Yesterday a headline said Stephen Hawking believes we have 100 years left on this planet.

Interesting indeed. In a May, 2017, Newsweek article Stephen Hawking was quoted as follows:

quote:
“Although the chance of disaster to planet Earth in a given year may be quite low, it adds up over time, and becomes a near certainty in the next 1,000 or 10,000 years,” Hawking told the Oxford University Union in November.

Seems a rather strange thing for him to say, given that life has existed on this planet for billions of years and survived scores of disasters. Anyway, the end days I was referring to was when our Sun becomes a red giant and incinerates the Earth, estimated to happen about 5 billion years from now.

Gee, your Message 1465 is empty - nothing to say in reply to my Message 1459?

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1467 by Faith, posted 12-28-2017 1:45 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1472 by Faith, posted 12-28-2017 2:25 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20761
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 1475 of 1540 (826317)
12-28-2017 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1472 by Faith
12-28-2017 2:25 PM


Re: Tension from Faith
Faith writes:

How would you know whether you've been communing with the great deceiver?

Well, I know YOU have. That ought to be a clue.

You're ignoring the question. How would you know whether you or anyone else had been communing with the great deceiver?

And you left a whole lot up in the air:

  • Would you help your gay friend with bad eyesight pick out a wedding cake?
  • Is it really love that causes you to label the entire religion of Islam murderous? Are you sure you're not judgmental?
  • Theologies don't have evidence. They're all based on faith, on what people want to believe. No one can claim, "I've studied more years, therefore mine is true."
  • Declarations such as you've made like, (sic) "I know my theology is true," are statements of faith, not fact.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1472 by Faith, posted 12-28-2017 2:25 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1479 by Faith, posted 12-28-2017 4:21 PM Percy has replied
 Message 1480 by PaulK, posted 12-28-2017 5:25 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20761
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 1477 of 1540 (826319)
12-28-2017 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1465 by Faith
12-28-2017 1:03 PM


Re: Does True Christian Faith Mean Loving All?
Well, what do you know, a formerly null message suddenly pops up with text with not so much as an AbE. Well, you're nothing if not consistent.

Ah, I see, you weren't being judgmental when you said we'll be sorry on judgment day. You weren't being judgmental when you said gays should be discriminated against. You weren't being judgmental when you called Islam a murderous religion.

Well, as usual you DON'T see anything at all.

I'm talking about the dictim to "judge not lest ye be judged" which refers to accusations of PERSONAL sins.

No it doesn't, but even if it did, what is a religion but a group of persons who you are labeling murderous. That's pretty personal.

I didn't mention anyone's personal sins in reference to judgment day, just the general hatred of God you all express.

You sure are resourceful at finding excuses for your expressions of hate.

I said nothing about discriminating against gays,...

Really? You never said anything about discriminating against gays. Then how do you explain this is from your Message 1351:

Faith in Message 1351 writes:

Yes and he's right to discriminate against gay marriage...there are some situations where we discriminate and gay marriage ought to be one of them.

Seems like you have some pretty strong feelings about your right to discriminate against gays.

I don't condemn them for their personal sins either, we're all sinners.

But you really work at it.

And just as I said I don't judge Muslims personally either, their personal sins are none of my business. But Islam is an ideology and I certainly DO judge murderous ideologies.

No, you judge Muslims personally. To you they're followers of a murderous ideology and therefore unfit to enter our country. That's a pretty personal judgment.

I don't understand why you keep denying the obvious. You have lots of rules people have to follow before they're acceptable to you, and until they follow your rules you judge them unworthy and deserving of whatever consequences you decide should be doled out.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1465 by Faith, posted 12-28-2017 1:03 PM Faith has taken no action

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20761
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 1478 of 1540 (826320)
12-28-2017 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1474 by Faith
12-28-2017 2:45 PM


Re: Tension from Faith
If you want to discuss the flood then I suggest you resume participation in one of the many flood threads you abandoned. "The Flood" deposits as a sea transgressive/regressive sequence ("Walther's Law") would be a good one. You have 76 unanswered messages.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1474 by Faith, posted 12-28-2017 2:45 PM Faith has taken no action

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20761
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 1483 of 1540 (826328)
12-29-2017 7:06 AM
Reply to: Message 1479 by Faith
12-28-2017 4:21 PM


Re: Tension from Faith
Faith writes:

Percy writes:

You're ignoring the question. How would you know whether you or anyone else had been communing with the great deceiver?

I know by their DOCTRINE.

Then look at your doctrine. It's causing you to hate whole classes and religions of people, and to support a crass, crude, lying, divisive miserable-excuse-for-a-human-being president. Most people find you the most hateful person on this entire board. Your doctrine labels you the most unChristian person here. Look inside yourself and let the hate go. Then the deceiver will be defeated, and you'll be able to perform these expressions of love:

  • Help your gay friend with bad eyesight pick out a wedding cake.
  • Welcome refugees to this country regardless of religion.
  • Co-exist peacefully and acceptingly with many different theologies.
  • See everyone as a human being deserving of your love and indifferent to their religion, if any.

What you've done is let your mistaken version of Christianity close you off from all but a small segment of humanity. That's not what Jesus wanted.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1479 by Faith, posted 12-28-2017 4:21 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1487 by Faith, posted 12-29-2017 9:11 AM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20761
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 1484 of 1540 (826330)
12-29-2017 7:40 AM
Reply to: Message 1480 by PaulK
12-28-2017 5:25 PM


Re: Tension from Faith
PaulK writes:

Faith’s God loves lies and slander, hates the very idea of people understanding the Bible and doesn’t want her to acknowledge her sins, let alone repent.

Does that sound like Satan to you ?

There used to be a group called the Jesus Seminar that attempted to identify which of Jesus' actions and words described in the gospels were actually true. They tended to reject Jesus' most hateful and vengeful words as unauthentic, such as this passage that Faith likes to quote:

quote:
Matt 23:33-35 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

They say it represents a time before the fall of Jeruaslem when Jewish synagogues were beginning to excommunicate Christian members, and Christians retaliated by heaping scorn on their Jewish rivals. This process only worsened after Jerusalem's fall.

But Faith latches onto to these unlikely Jesus passages and uses them as excuses for her own hateful attitudes. I don't believe in Satan, but there are many who are divisive forces in our society who want only to sow discord and dissension because they fear anyone who isn't like themselves, and the want the power to force their views on others.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Grammar.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1480 by PaulK, posted 12-28-2017 5:25 PM PaulK has taken no action

Replies to this message:
 Message 1485 by jar, posted 12-29-2017 8:20 AM Percy has seen this message
 Message 1486 by Phat, posted 12-29-2017 8:21 AM Percy has seen this message
 Message 1490 by Faith, posted 12-29-2017 9:45 AM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20761
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 1491 of 1540 (826357)
12-29-2017 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 1487 by Faith
12-29-2017 9:11 AM


Re: Tension from Faith
Faith writes:

Just to be clear, are you saying my doctrine is traditional Christian doctrine or not? Farther down you refer to my "mistaken version of Christianity" but it's hard to tell if you regard it as mistaken just because you prefer some other interpretational system, such as the Jesus Seminar or you actually think it's not the traditional doctrine.

I don't prefer any Christian "interpretational system", but of course the Jesus Seminar comes closer to my views because they don't take the Bible literally. But they take it much more literally than I do. For instance, they think Jesus was a real person.

The reason I think your Christian views mistaken is because they cause you to view so much of the human race in dark and even sinister terms when the primary message of Christianity is to love our fellow man. That message emerges unambiguously when you examine the words of Jesus that the Jesus Seminar has judged genuine, and all your justifications for vipers and vengeance just melt away. Your studies have built you a house of hate, and that's not the message of Christianity

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1487 by Faith, posted 12-29-2017 9:11 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1492 by Faith, posted 12-29-2017 10:04 AM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20761
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 1493 of 1540 (826360)
12-29-2017 10:26 AM
Reply to: Message 1490 by Faith
12-29-2017 9:45 AM


Re: Tension from Faith
Faith writes:

To clarify: I originally quoted Matthew 23:33-35 to show that Jesus doesn't fit the portrait of blanket lovingness so erroneously imputed to Him here.

Jesus as originally conceived never said Matthew 23:33-35. Obviously in the early years of Christianity as various evangelists attempted to influence the course of Christian belief, Jesus was the voice of authority, and what better way to persuade than to put their own message in Jesus' mouth.

He saves sinners by paying for their sins, which is certainly loving the sinner but far from ignoring or condoning sin, and eventually He will come in judgment against those who don't repent.

It is for some reason very appealing to you that people who don't repent will be punished.

That, I'm claiming, is traditional Bible-inerrancy Christianity. Are you saying it's not traditional,...

No, I'm not saying it isn't traditional evangelicalism, but your emphasis on these hate portions of evangelicalism is not how most evangelicals would characterize their religion. I think if you had the same conversation with evangelicals that you're having with us here that they'd respond, "Your views are out of balance. You stress too much the venom and not enough the love and compassion."

For an example of how you differ from most other evangelicals I offer your response to when I said we should "follow our hearts." Instead of taking the clear meaning you found a hateful Biblical passage that called the heart "deceitful above all things."

...that I made it up,...

I think your views are unbalanced toward the hateful.

...that I personally "latch onto" such passages for some purposes of my own,...

I think the Biblical passages that you stress so often are a reflection of who you are.

...or it IS the traditional belief system as I said, but you think it's wrong, or what?

If by "traditional belief system" you mean traditional plain old Christianity that you can find in any Methodist or Congregational church, then from what I've experienced they seem to be spreading Jesus' message of love.

If by "traditional belief system" you mean the evangelical belief system, then I think it's an exclusive, xenophobic religion and that to the extent they promote those attitudes instead of love and inclusivity that they are wrong.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1490 by Faith, posted 12-29-2017 9:45 AM Faith has replied

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 Message 1494 by Faith, posted 12-29-2017 10:47 AM Percy has replied

  
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