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Author Topic:   What is an "Ex Believer", anyway?
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 71 of 123 (826300)
12-28-2017 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by Phat
12-28-2017 3:59 AM


Re: The definition of meeting God 2017
Phat writes:
How have I changed?
2005 Phat said:
quote:
I maintain that those who used to believe in God never actually experienced meeting Him. If they had, they would know it!
That seems to be pretty much what you're saying today.
Suppose you found out instead that Uncle Bill was a war criminal. (I have thought about this because my ancestors came from Germany.)
Who is the real "Uncle Bill"? Did you ever really know him? Do you still want to know him?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Phat, posted 12-28-2017 3:59 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Phat, posted 12-29-2017 8:49 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 76 of 123 (826361)
12-29-2017 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by Phat
12-29-2017 8:49 AM


Re: The definition of meeting God 2017
Phat writes:
Or suppose that Uncle Bill was a patriot yet helped the Russians manipulate the 2016 election? Would I love him or hate him?
You tell me.
Phat writes:
Childhood doesnt count. I believed willingly in lots of fantasies back then.
So did I. I stopped believing in Santa Claus and God. What's the difference?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Phat, posted 12-29-2017 8:49 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Phat, posted 12-29-2017 11:00 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 78 of 123 (826369)
12-29-2017 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by Phat
12-29-2017 11:00 AM


Re: The definition of meeting God 2017
Phat writes:
You likely never fully believed in either one. I could see you demanding evidence even when you were six.
You didn't answer the question: What's the difference between believing in Santa Claus and believing in God?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Phat, posted 12-29-2017 11:00 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by Phat, posted 12-29-2017 12:02 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 81 of 123 (826375)
12-29-2017 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Phat
12-29-2017 12:02 PM


Re: The definition of meeting God 2017
Phat writes:
Santa Claus can be tested. God cannot.
If you leave cookies for God, what will happen? Is there any sign of God on the roof or in the chimney? What are the logistics problems for creating the earth?
Santa and God, what's the difference?
Edited by ringo, : Fixed quote.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Phat, posted 12-29-2017 12:02 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by Phat, posted 12-29-2017 12:09 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 83 of 123 (826377)
12-29-2017 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Phat
12-29-2017 12:09 PM


Re: The definition of meeting God 2017
Phat writes:
For one thing, we expect a lot more out of God than we do out of Santa.
You're missing the point. What's the difference between the beliefs? Why does one make more sense than the other? Why can we discard one and not the other?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Phat, posted 12-29-2017 12:09 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by Phat, posted 12-29-2017 12:23 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 85 of 123 (826379)
12-29-2017 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by Phat
12-29-2017 12:23 PM


Re: Santa And God.
Phat writes:
Again...its a lot harder to test for God than it is for Santa.
Again... I pointed out that you can do the same tests - and get the same results.
Phat writes:
Santa Claus never gave me anything that I couldn't buy myself. Perhaps for you, the same is true with God.
What does God give you that you can't get in other ways? Remember, we're talking about testing, here, not woo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Phat, posted 12-29-2017 12:23 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by Phat, posted 12-29-2017 12:35 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 87 of 123 (826400)
12-30-2017 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by Phat
12-29-2017 12:35 PM


Re: Santa And God.
Phat writes:
We are talking about emotional security.
YOU may be talking about emotional security. I'm talking about your claim that Santa Claus can be tested and God can't. Name some tests that can be done for Santa Claus that can't be done for God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Phat, posted 12-29-2017 12:35 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by Phat, posted 12-30-2017 12:14 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 89 of 123 (826410)
12-30-2017 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by Phat
12-30-2017 12:14 PM


Re: Santa And God.
Phat writes:
We don't know what God looks like or whether His presence would even leave any testable hoofprints.
That's a copout. You conveniently don't know what God looks like as an excuse for finding no evidence. Then you conveniently pretend to know what God thinks.
God uses magic. Santa uses magic. God hides. Santa hides. There's nothing silly about the comparison.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Phat, posted 12-30-2017 12:14 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Phat, posted 12-30-2017 12:33 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 91 of 123 (826414)
12-30-2017 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Phat
12-30-2017 12:33 PM


Re: Santa And God.
Phat writes:
So does this mean that when a man matures he no longer has a father?
It means he doesn't rely on his father to bail him out of everything. He takes responsibility for his own actions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Phat, posted 12-30-2017 12:33 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by jar, posted 12-30-2017 4:02 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 95 of 123 (826457)
01-02-2018 10:37 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by Phat
01-01-2018 11:56 AM


Re: Mom And God.
Phat writes:
I can't imagine having to fend for myself in a universe with no God, however.
It's pretty much the same as a universe with God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Phat, posted 01-01-2018 11:56 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by Phat, posted 01-02-2018 12:08 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 97 of 123 (826532)
01-03-2018 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Phat
01-02-2018 12:08 PM


Re: Mom And God.
Phat writes:
so are you saying that God and no God are the same thing?
Effectively, yes. If you can show how God has a demonstrable effect on your universe, feel free to demonstrate it.
Phat writes:
But you chose to think that way
If you think you can choose to believe, choose to believe in Santa Claus right now. Just believe in Santa Claus for a few minites; then you can switch back.
Then we'll move on to Test #2.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Phat, posted 01-02-2018 12:08 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by Phat, posted 01-03-2018 7:28 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
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