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Author Topic:   What is an "Ex Believer", anyway?
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(2)
Message 111 of 123 (826638)
01-05-2018 7:51 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by Aussie
01-05-2018 3:15 PM


How you got there
I could say some of us have been brave enough to ask the truly difficult, soul-shattering questions...and kept asking them...and kept asking them while our lifelong world-view turned upside down and inside out. At the end we stood alone and shivering in an entirely different Universe than what we were taught about as children. But then took a step. All on our own. And another. Then another. Then we ran, and learned. And found ourselves truly free in a wild and magnificent world.
This is clearly from the point of view of someone starting out in a Christian family though. Some of us who weren't all that immersed in the Christian worldview, if at all, also did some heavy thinking and question-asking, but we were already in the upside-down world and already explored it and at least some of us would have liked to find an alternative. I myself didn't know I was looking for an alternative but I do remember the sense of discovering that the world I was living in was upside-down so it's interesting you chose that metaphor.
Anyway I wasn't looking for God. Oh off and on I'd wondered but came up against a blank wall. I was aware of the psychobabble notions of God but there's no reality there. It never would have occurred to me to consider traditional Christianity as a source of answers. The question couldn't even occur to me. I was imbued with modern secularist sometimes pseudospiritualized concepts that were all dead ends. I don't think I had a coherent worldview, except maybe some pieces of Christianized western civilization stuck in odd places in my head, among the atheist bits and the pagan bits and the totally inchoate bits. That all came together for me eventually, after God found me.
I gather you were about as deep as one can get into traditional Christianity, but it makes me wonder, questions like Do you know you were born again? How do you know? Did you have one image of God for some period of time and then a completely other image of God? Did you go from loving God to hating him when your image changed, or how would you put that? I find it hard to understand going from belief to disbelief based on your apprehension that God was different than you'd thought.
I know I can't lose my belief/faith. I think it has something to do with having come to it from the other direction than you did, but I don't think I could exactly say why.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Aussie, posted 01-05-2018 3:15 PM Aussie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by Phat, posted 01-06-2018 2:00 AM Faith has replied
 Message 120 by Aussie, posted 01-08-2018 12:29 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 114 of 123 (826649)
01-06-2018 3:17 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by Phat
01-06-2018 2:00 AM


Re: How you got there
We (you and I) can believe that being born again is an absolute reality allowed by the Creator of all seen and unseen and we can dismiss any arguments that challenge our belief but imagine what Aussie has gone through and you can begin to understand that scripture and Christian Language no longer mean anything to him
But it had to mean something to him once. He was on track to become a pastor and heavily immersed in everything Christian, which from the sound of it was completely traditional if on the extreme side. Sometimes people are born again and don't have a clear memory of it but most people I know do have a clear memory of it, so he is likely to as well. Of course I am wondering if such an experience is crucial in the perseverance of the saints. Perhaps Aussie has an opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Phat, posted 01-06-2018 2:00 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by Phat, posted 01-06-2018 10:36 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 122 by Aussie, posted 01-08-2018 12:58 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 123 of 123 (826734)
01-08-2018 8:59 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by Aussie
01-08-2018 12:29 PM


Re: How you got there
Nice to hear your wife and daughter get all of you on on the weekends. You're about my daughter's age by the way.
All I meant by "traditional" was denominations where standard biblical doctrine is held -- such as saved by grace through faith etc... as opposed to, say, liberal, or "prosperity doctrine" or something cultic, led by a personality or that sort of thing. Charismatic churches are a bit on the fringe but they too hold to the standard doctrines. (I belonged to a charismatic church for a few years and also did a lot of reading trying to convince myself whether the "spiritual gifts" are for today or ceased in the early church. I found it extremely difficult to come to a definite conclusion. Finally a few years ago a conference at John MacArthur's church convinced me the whole movement is false, by showing that the "gifts" practiced today are simply not those practiced in the early church.)
So your experience was pretty traditional.
I suppose I'm trying to understand if there are safeguards against falling away, such as being born again for instance.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by Aussie, posted 01-08-2018 12:29 PM Aussie has not replied

  
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